DeJesus, the Roster and Cubs Minor League News and Notes

The Cubs roster shuffle continued on Monday when they dealt David DeJesus to the Washington Nationals for a player to be named later. The Nationals claimed DeJesus on waivers and the two teams worked out a trade that will save the Cubs around $2.5 million. DeJesus has around $1 million left on his $4.5 million contract for this season plus the $1.5 million buyout on the $6.5 million club option for 2014.

Washington has six months to send a player to the Cubs for David DeJesus.

The Nationals turned around and placed DeJesus on revocable trade waivers “almost immediately after acquiring him from the Cubs on Monday” according to a report from Ken Rosenthal. The Nationals might not want to be on the hook for the remaining money on DeJesus’ contract. According to multiple reports, the Nationals placed a claim on DeJesus and were granted the claim after the Cubs did not pull him back. Buster Olney reported it could turn out to be a waiver-claim mistake by Mike Rizzo and the Nationals.

David DeJesus was the first free agent signing by Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer and neither the team nor DeJesus closed the door on him re-signing with the Cubs during the upcoming off-season. The Cubs could end up signing him for less than the $6.5 million club option they had on DeJesus for the 2014 season.

The Cubs are going to use the remainder of the season as a chance to get an extended look at Brian Bogusevic and Ryan Sweeney. Bogusevic was activated from the 15-day DL on Monday and is expected to be in the starting lineup on Tuesday. Jed Hoyer said Ryan Sweeney is almost ready to begin a rehab assignment and will see significant playing time when he returns. Sweeney has been on the 60-day DL since June 30 and cannot be activated until August 30. Look for Sweeney to be back in the lineup once rosters expand on September 1.

By working out a trade with the Nationals for David DeJesus, the Cubs opened a spot on the 40-man roster, which currently stands at 39 players. The spot will be needed when Ryan Sweeney is activated.

David DeJesus

According to a report from Comcast SportsNet, David DeJesus’ time with the Cubs might not have come to an end on Monday. Jed Hoyer said, “We really like David a lot. I’ve told his agent and I know Theo told David directly. I’m willing to talk to him about bringing him back at some point. I think he’s a good mentor for our young guys. I like his approach at the plate. But that doesn’t close the door on David with the Cubs in the future because he represents himself well, he’s a pro and a lot of things he does we’d like to have in our clubhouse again.”

For as much as the Cubs like DeJesus, according to Patrick Mooney, they found a way to save the $2.5 million over the next 39 games. The Cubs could re-sign DeJesus at a lesser cost, and as a fourth outfielder.

Brandon Hyde

Brandon Hyde, the Cubs Director of Player Development, joined Barry Rozner and Connor McKnight during Hit and Run (670 the Score) on Sunday morning and discussed the Cubs’ farm system.

Javier Baez was the first player that Hyde was asked about and if the Cubs planned on leaving him at shortstop. Hyde said, “Absolutely.” Hyde explained that Baez is only 20 years old and he’s had his issues this year but he is a “special defender.” Baez has the tool set to play short and the Cubs are going to leave him at short as long as they can.

Defensively there are a lot of factors that have gone into the errors that Baez has committed this season. Baez is just a couple of years out of high school and the game does speed up and it is even faster at the Double-A level. This is a new experience for Baez according to Hyde. He went onto explain that a majority of shortstops like him are super athletic and he is still growing. A lot of Baez’s errors on all balls he is getting to that other shortstops cannot. Then once Baez makes a play, he tries to force something that is not there trying to get an out. Hyde and the Cubs feel that his maturity will subtract the number of errors. Hyde pointed out that Baez is a very smart player and is very serious about the game.

The Cubs feel that Baez is physically is a shortstop and he is athletic enough with quick feet and hands which will allow him to play short.

Hyde acknowledged that Mike Olt is going through a tough year. The Cubs are hoping to get him back on track. Hyde saw Olt play last week while he was in Des Moines. Hyde believes that Olt is caught in between this year and is having a tough time getting out of it. The Cubs are excited to have him and are looking forward to getting Olt back on track.

Barry Rozner asked about the pitching prospects in the system and if there are any pitchers in the system that could be with the big league team in the near future. Hyde raved about Kyle Hendricks. Hyde said that he can really pitch and is extremely intelligent. Hyde said that Hendricks will be considered for the rotation next year and will go into camp competing for a spot.

Hyde has liked what he has seen from Armando Rivero and really “all of the guys in Daytona”, especially C.J. Edwards. Hyde mentioned that it has gotten “a lot more interesting on the mound this season” in the system. The goal for the system is to show steady improvement throughout the year and they feel players are getting better. The Cubs are excited about the entire system, players and pitchers.

Arodys Vizcaino is getting healthy and is progressing well. Hyde said that Vizcaino will either pitch in the fall league or somewhere this off-season. Hyde reiterated that Vizcaino has an 80 fastball as well as a plus slider and the Cubs were excited to get him last year from the Braves. Vizcaino will be in the mix for a spot in the rotation next season according to Brandon Hyde.

When asked about the National League adopting the designated hitter and Dan Vogelbach, Hyde quickly cautioned to not pigeon-hole Vogelbach into a DH. Vogelbach is more athletic than he seems. Hyde mentioned Prince Fielder as a possible comp, then quickly said that he’s probably not as athletic as Fielder. Hyde said he could not count out Vogelbach playing first base. The Cubs have worked a lot with him physically and will continue to do so. The Cubs are “excited about Dan,” Hyde said. Vogelbach is playing good defense and Hyde is going to see him and the D-Cubs this week. Hyde pointed out that Vogelbach has a lot of power potential, they just need to smooth out his defense.

Hyde was asked about players in the system that he is high on that do not make headlines. Hyde said a lot of guys are making a push in the second half. Hyde discussed how well Jae-Hoon Ha has played and that he is a plus defender in center at a very young age. Christian Villanueva has played very well, not only is he a plus defender but he is really hitting at the Double-A level. Rubi Silva and Arismendy Alcantara have made “huge steps forward” and the Cubs are very excited about both of them.

Kris Bryant

Kris Bryant made the most of his first week with the Daytona Cubs. Seven days after being named the Northwest League Player of the Week, Bryant was named the Florida State League Player of the Week after hitting .360/.385/.760 with one double, three home runs and five RBI in seven games (9-for-25).

Kris Bryant has hit safely in 23 of his first 27 games and is hitting .344/.391/.688 with 10 doubles, a triple and seven home runs.

News and Notes

According to a report from Bruce Levine, there is no finger pointing in the Cubs clubhouse.

The Cubs promoted James Pugliese to Kane County from Boise on Monday. The 21-year old right hander posted a 4-3 record in 12 games, 11 starts, with a 2.32 ERA and a 1.08 WHIP (55 hits, 12 walks and 47 strikeouts in 62 innings).

Follow ChicagoCubsOnline on Twitter: @TheCCO and @TheCCO_Minors

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  • TheWrongGuy

    Great Report Neil THANKS!!

    • http://theboardridersuite.wordpress.com/ Theboardrider

      Indeed. These are myfavorite types of read.

      • 07GreyDigger

        Especially when the farm director praises Kyle Hendricks…

      • cubtex

        But there was no mention of Loux :)

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  • Tony_Hall

    Thanks for the recap on the Brandon Hyde interview. Great stuff!

  • raymondrobertkoenig

    Don’t be surprised if Schierholtz goes, too.

  • Tony_Hall

    Why will the Cubs get anything back in return if this is true ” the Nationals placed a claim on DeJesus and were granted the claim after the Cubs did not pull him back. Buster Olney reported it could turn out to be a waiver-claim mistake by Mike Rizzo and the Nationals.”

    Why would the Nationals have agreed to a PTBNL if this is true?

    • Ripsnorter1

      I’m with you, Tony. It makes no sense at all.

      • Tony_Hall

        I see why they would have wanted DeJesus. They have 2 injury prone OF’s and need a better 4th OF. Regardless of what you think of him, he is a very good 4th OF and would start on around half of the teams.

        But why give anything up for him, if the Cubs were going to not pull him back off of waivers?

        • Ripsnorter1

          I understand about how you think….WAR and all…..

          David DeJesus and Albert Pujols have the same WAR this year: 1.29.
          http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/70816/pujols-contract-rising-production-declining

          LOL

          • Tony_Hall

            WAR is like all stats, telling you what happened. Pujols has had a bad year, maybe Jack Clark is right….

            Plus I look at all stats, WAR is just the easiest one to take a snapshot and compare players.

          • 07GreyDigger

            People don’t like to change with these new fangled stats if you haven’t noticed. If it requires looking outside the box and learning a little, it’s too much effort. We’re fighting a losing battle my friend.

          • cubtex

            WAR…What is it good for??? Absolutely Nothing!!! Say it again

          • cubtex

            Look at the leader in WAR in the NL and explain to me how Paul Goldschmidt is behind David Wright, Carlos Gomez and Andrew McCutchen. Look at Goldy’s stats

            .296 avg .392 OBP 30 HR and 96 RBI

            But Carlos Gomez has a higher WAR?

          • 07GreyDigger

            Because WAR looks at all facets of the game, offense, defense and baserunning. It also adjusts WAR based on their position for guys who are elite at defending positions like CF, SS and 3B

            This accounts for why Andrew McCutchen, Gomez and Wright rate higher than Goldschmitt. Because they are complete players at a difficult position whereas Goldschmitt plays at a less difficult position.

            For more info, here’s a handy link.

            http://www.fangraphs.com/library/war/war-position-players/

          • cubtex

            I know what it looks at. That is why I don’t like it. Goldy is having a much better year than anyone in the NL.

          • 07GreyDigger

            Offensively maybe. Offense is just one facet of the game.

          • Ripsnorter1

            True, but the big taters is what wins games.

          • 07GreyDigger

            Don’t worry. I’m sure Goldschmitt will get more considered for the MVP award.

          • cubtex

            I think WAR is taking away from historic offensive production. Look at last year….Miggy won the TRIPLE CROWN and there was a question of who deserved the MVP? Trout or Cabrera. Trout had a great year but CMON. A Triple Crown? It should have been unanimous in Miggy’s favor.

          • triple

            So where’s the statistical evidence that proves WAR is taking away from past performances? How many baseball writers told you they gave Trout their vote based on WAR? Or do you think that they saw how many impactful plays Trout made with his glove, and the way he steals bases? You of all people know that is important!

            When you add up how many runs each of those players was involved in scoring for their respective teams, Miggy was involved in plating 160 runs, while Trout was involved in 152. That shows a true number on how all their offensive production was involved in their team’s score runs. I think Trout’s defensive play did more than enough to make up for the 8 run gap. But having said all that, Miguel Cabrera did win the MVP, and I believe he deserved it. The triple crown is a HUGE accomplishment, and I’m sure that swayed votes to his side. Now if Mike Trout had gotten 3 more hits last season, he would have won the batting championship, and who knows how that vote would have ended then?!?!

          • Brp921

            It’s like the choice between Williams and DiMaggio back in the day.

          • 07GreyDigger

            I would make a safe gamble and say that maybe 20% of the writers considered WAR. A lot of baseball writers don’t really seem on the cutting edge of baseball stat technology considering on how they vote for the HOF.

          • Dorasaga

            A problem is that many baseball writers don’t watch much games. Many writers are too old and wouldn’t travel with their home team. They wouldn’t visit the minor league, compare players, or do any extensive research.

            And many of these writers can still vote.

          • 07GreyDigger

            Does MVP call into question, defense and baserunning ability? Probably not. Like if you were voting for an MVP and you had two guys with identical numbers except for steals, would that really weigh in? Or defense? MVP is a offensive popularity contest so Cabrera won because he should have because of his OFFENSIVE numbers.

            WAR brings everything into account. It’s more about valuing your individual players from a scouting standpoint. His value to the team.

          • cubtex

            I agree.Does a Darwin Barney mean more to a team than your best run producer? Can’t win if you can’t score.

          • Tony_Hall

            Not necessarily the best but depends on the team and the players in question.

          • Tony_Hall

            You are right one player being slightly better in the offensive categories, makes up for being far inferior in defense, baserunning, or all the other facets of the game of baseball.

            Too bad we didn’t have a way to put a number on all these areas so that we could compare players to see who truly is better. How about we call how many wins a player helps a team win over the course of a season compared to if they used a roster filler from AAA……now if only we had a shorter name!

          • Dorasaga

            ROAR? Runs Over Average Replacement?

            Sounds loud. Good name for football, too, because one has a hard time hearing any particular else in that field. ;-)

          • Dorasaga

            I had a big conversation that almost turned into a debate with someone else about the Trout-Cabrera MVP question. If we use WAR as the biggest factor, well… Historical contents are never considered. Team situations are not considered. Winning or losing is not important.

            Even with all facets of a single position of this player considered… Who’s more valuable? 120 games into the season, a 12 WAR player on a postseason team that needed that big offense to make 92 wins? or a 16 WAR player who only played 90 games so far and on a 72 win team??

            I had a hard time believing Trout should be a MVP last year. Miggy was the first Triple Crown in 45 years. He played everyday. He played an underrated defensive position (3B) while managed to produce the best Major League offense we’ve seen in years. His presence kept his team winning.

            One last thing. Defensive sabermetrics are still only 60% accurate to portray a player’s production on the field. That’s according to Bill James. Many are missing in the line. WAR is far from perfect, and certainly not the end of a “Value” talk when it comes to awarding players in a year.

          • gary3411

            The problem was, it wasn’t a ‘great’ triple crown. Any one of those stats would have been beaten just about any other year. Plus, like has been said, that’s just hitting.

          • Dorasaga

            That was a ice breaker, for I was LOL. I have a lot of respect to Prince Albert, and I believe he earned that 10+10 year contract. But b/w 2013 and his plate at the Hall of Fame, he still needs to earn via a long, long way.

      • cubtex

        Sounds like the PTBNL might be one of the Running Presidents. sounds like all they wanted to do was dump 2.5 mil.

        • Tony_Hall

          I bet it was prearranged for the Nationals to put him back through waivers and the PTBNL will be dependent on what they get back. My best guess is the Nationals were blocking him from someone else and wants to control where he goes (no idea why, but it could be a favor to someone else as well). The real reasons may never come out.

          • cubtex

            True. It was a strange claim. They have their outfield set, aren’t WC contenders and they could pick up a #4 outfielder in the offseason.

          • Brp921

            I tried to reply earlier today from my phone but for some reason I couldn’t. I was confused about this trade as well, but I think you hit the nail on the head Tony, your reasoning makes sense.

          • Dorasaga

            Puzzling. So now I need to take a logical guess as to whose favor?

    • cubtex

      Rizzo forgot to put his glasses on and thought he was claiming Ivan DeJesus

      • CubbyDenCritic

        Maybe Nationals GM will claim Manny Trillo next off of waivers.

  • GaryLeeT

    I wonder what the plan is with Bryant and Olt? Does Bryant get moved to another position, or does Olt have a year to prove himself?

    • Tony_Hall

      It only matters if both make the majors as starters. If they both do, Olt is the 3B and Bryant finds a new position.

      That would be a good problem to have and soon would be nice.

    • Ripsnorter1

      I wouldn’t be worried about that problem happening anytime soon.
      Olt is strictly a reclamation project.

      2013 Mike Olt
      .122 BA (folks scoffed at me for posting his .130 BA and said that he’ll never
      hit that low at the ML level. Well, he dropped even further at the AAA level).

      2 HR
      4 RBI
      24 K
      90 AB

      He’s not ready to push Bryant off of 3B just yet.

      • 07GreyDigger

        But what if this year is a lost year and next year he plays like he’s supposed to be. Is it a bad deal then?

        • bpot92

          I don’t know if he is saying its was a bad deal, just Olt needs some more time before he is ready to start at in the Majors.

          • 07GreyDigger

            Always posting the negative doesn’t give off the best impression. Just saying.

          • Ripsnorter1

            But I don’t “always post the negative.”

            Why, just yesterday I said that dealing DeJesus was a great trade. Wonderful move. Tremendous benefit to the Cubs.

            Just having the guy off of the roster is a blessing…..

          • 07GreyDigger

            I guess always is harsh. 75% posting the negative. :)

          • triple

            Haha, give yourself another pat on the back for yesterday’s positivity post brought to you by Rip!

  • Ripsnorter1

    Looking at the stats…..

    The Cubs are #4 in all of MLB in quality starts (74).
    The Cubs are #6 in all of MLB in BAA (.244).
    Starting pitching has not been our problem.

  • Ripsnorter1

    Brett Jackson is hitting .183 in 60 AB in AA–all singles.
    He’s really having a rough ride. 22 K’s, 8 BB.

    • Andy Turner

      Who? I have given up on him panning out to anything more than a 4th outfielder at best… and that is also very doubtful for me… Perhaps he can be another teams reclamation like Olt is for us

  • Ripsnorter1

    Christian Villanueva: 2013 AA Tennessee

    446 AB
    103 K
    .267 BA
    16 HR
    64 RBI
    .322 OBP
    .469 slug

    Last ten games:
    33 AB….11 H….333 BA…

    April …205
    May….304 BA
    June…..234 BA
    July …297
    Aug…288

    • 07GreyDigger

      Villanueva is a conundrum for this team and would have to be trade bait. With Bryant and Olt in your system and better offensive bats, where does that leave Villanueva? I’ve heard talks of moving him to 2B, but with Alcantara and Baez as options there as well, that leaves him without a position.

      • Ripsnorter1

        I think he may have the better bat over Olt.

        • cubtex

          Olt is the better prospect. Hopefully he will bounce back next year. Villanueva doesn’t have 30 HR potential at a corner infield spot like Olt does.

          • 07GreyDigger

            Right. If a guy hits 15 HR’s in the minors, would that he hits 10-12 against better competition? That’s 2B bat territory.

          • cubtex

            that’s about right.

          • Ripsnorter1

            If Olt hits .122 in AAA, then he’s going to hit……067 in a Cubs’
            uniform? His K rate is atrocious.

            Villanueva may actually be able to hit .260 in MLB.
            Sure, he’s not a 30 tater guy at this point, but…….

          • 07GreyDigger

            Sure he’s doing that THIS year. But is he going to do it next year? Small sample size and injuries aside, let’s see what he does when he’s not dealing with those things before we write him off.

          • mutantbeast

            lets not forget his D either, Rip. V has had a very good year with the glove down there. I like him, but maybe in a different position other than 3rd.

      • texcubnut

        Nice problems to have, aren’t they?

        • 07GreyDigger

          Yes. Very much so.

      • gary3411

        Bryant is most likely an outfielder in the bigs and villanueva likely isn’t a regular (except maybe at second). It’s far far far from a conundrum with plenty of time to sort out.

        The only way it turns into a conundrum is if both are hitting like 900ops in AAA and AA while Bryant is vacuuming balls up at third. The chances of that is about 1%.

    • mutantbeast

      Villanueva is 5th in the SL in HR and in the top 10 in slugging pct. Hes actually had a pretty solid year down there.

    • Brp921

      I have been questioning his .260 something batting average in double A ball but had not looked at the splits. Looks like for whatever reason he just had a couple of bad months. I’ll withhold judgement on him till I see more.

  • Ripsnorter1

    Rusin has outpitched Scott Feldman since the trade:
    Feldman…3-3…4.84 ERA
    Rusin……..2-2…3.06 ERA

    • cubtex

      short sample. Remember how many were so high on Casey Coleman a few years back when he pitched so well in September?

      • Ripsnorter1

        Oh sure. It’s a small sample. But I’m no Feldman fan, either.
        It’ll be interesting to see if Feldman outpitches Arrieta or Rusin or
        even Carlos Villanueva.

        • Andy Turner

          I am more interested in the up side of the two guys we got for Feldman as well as Rusin!

        • http://theboardridersuite.wordpress.com/ Theboardrider

          Just for the record, I have wnjiyed reading your posts lately Rip. tThere is, as usual your wealth of knwledge; but they’ve alao been bery constructive for the most part. Even when twy are critical. Kidos…

      • mutantbeast

        Lets add the other part of that trade. Strop has outpitched Feldman, albeit in a setup role. Still Arrieta and Strop so far are making Duquette look bad.

        • Brp921

          A playoff race sometimes make for lopsided trades though.

      • Dorasaga

        You mean Greg Maddux? Yea, good that he left his position as the Special Assistant to the Cubs, when he found out he’s good ol’bro can’t become manager but was stuck down Deep South, with a job that he actually mastered and was highly respected. I cannot imagine how many more Coleman whom G.Maddux will praise and make the Cubs either sign or promote to Chicago, if his bro was with them.

    • Brp921

      Its not important to me how Feldman does now just how he did before the trade. He got us a good haul.

      • Ripsnorter1

        Yup. But he has returned to what he was in previous years.

      • mutantbeast

        Feldman is what he is. A 4-5 BOR starter who wont start if the Birds make the playoffs. Not having Bundy healthy or Guasman ready are biting them right now. The O is there, there team defense is excellent, but there pitching stinks. Not like the late60s/early 70s Os teams.

        • Brp921

          Absolutely.

    • CubbyDenCritic

      Rusin has out pitched Garza in my opinion.

  • cubtex

    Seeing Shark’s quotes about Navarro and how much Garza preferred to have Navarro catch him instead of Castillo is really telling. I wonder if Shark will ask to have Navarro catch his games like Garza did.

    • CubbyDenCritic

      Pitchers should not dictate who should be catching for them……there is no “I” in a team…managers have control of who plays and where at.

      • cubtex

        Greg Maddux? I agree but that says something if 2 pitchers on the staff do so much better with Navarro catching them than Castillo. That tells me that Castillo still needs a lot of work

        • 07GreyDigger

          Maybe so, but the Cubs starters have a collective 3.83 ERA and Castillo has caught 94 games this season. He must be doing something right.

          • DWalker

            what is their ERA with Navarro vs with Castillo? That would be interesting to know

          • 07GreyDigger

            Castillo:
            4.06 ERA
            29.3% CS rate
            8 passed balls
            .987 fielding
            2.6 Defensive WAR

            Navarro:
            3.75 ERA
            24.4% CS rate
            2 passed balls
            .990 fielding
            0.4 Defensive WAR

          • Brp921

            I am surprised at Navarro’s stats. I haven’t really noticed lately any shortcomings but early in the year I thought he was atrocious behind the plate.

      • Ripsnorter1

        But there’s an “I” in WIN.

    • DWalker

      for all the FO’s talking up of Castillo, he has a long ways to go I think.

  • CubbyDenCritic

    Many years ago, the Giants put a waiver claim on Cubs Terry Mullholland….Giants were blocking Mullholland of going to the Braves I believe…..Cubs GM at the time told the GIants , you can have him and his large salary.

    • Ripsnorter1

      ChiSox got Alex Rios that way.

      • 07GreyDigger

        And got rid of him that way!

  • paulcatanese

    I am very happy the Dodgers got Puig instead of the Cubs getting him. What a piece of work he is, and he will only get worse. His attitude is a total embarrassment to the game of baseball.

    • 07GreyDigger

      What did he do?

      • Brp921

        Yes What did he do.

        • http://theboardridersuite.wordpress.com/ Theboardrider

          Hmmm, tough to totally agree. Those stats and abilities are mind-boggling. But yes, I’ve seen a lot out of him I don’t like. He’s still young and new to the country. A lot of that could be worked out. That team doesn’t have a strong veteran presence. Who will mentor him, Hanley Ramirez?

          • 07GreyDigger

            Haha. Great point. Adrian Gonzalez?

          • Brp921

            I’ve only seen him play against the Cubs and I don’t think I even saw all those games but I was totally impressed. Are you and Paul talking just about his attitude in general or did he do something in particular that leads you to question his actions?

          • paulcatanese

            Attitude, he acts as though he has everything coming, no fault with his play.

          • Brp921

            I hadn’t heard that. I agree, that is unacceptable.

      • paulcatanese

        Last night, glaring at the umpire on a called strike and then the K on a pitch over his head, glared again and said something to the effect that he swung at the pitch and it was the umps fault, choice words on the way to the dugout, throwing his helmut in the dugout and mouthed the words fxxxxu to the extent that the manager had to come out between innings to smooth over the ump. He had to be walked down the dugout walkway by a teammate or he was going to continue to rant.

    • Tony_Hall

      His approach at the plate is poor, he goes up swinging at the first ball he can get his bat on. It worked for awhile but now he is getting exploited and acting out in frustration.

      He was brought up too soon from the minors.

  • http://theboardridersuite.wordpress.com/ Theboardrider

    I wouldn’t mind DeJesus as a 4th outfielder at the right price to be a mentor and pinch hit against righties.

  • Dorasaga

    Interesting to see Vogelbach compared to Fielder. Fielder has been playing well the last two seasons after he signed a big contract. He slimmed “down” while expanded his ability to create runs, hitting to all sides, instead of driving longballs. If Vogelbach can improve with as many baseball IQ as Fielder has, then the Cubs will have a very good problem at first base.

    • cubtex

      agreed.