From the Wire … Cubs Agree to Send Sean Marshall to Reds for Travis Wood and Two Minor Leaguers

According to multiple reports, the Cubs and Reds have agreed in principle on a trade that will send Sean Marshall to Cincinnati for Travis Wood and two minor leaguers.

The deal is not official and is still pending the four players involved passing physicals.

The names of the two minor leaguers have not been released. Earlier reports have indicated the hold up in the deal was the two minor leaguers the Cubs would also receive for Sean Marshall.

Will update … stay tuned.

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  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M6AULXFPDVD3QEZDSKH3XWVA2A Nick Holt

    Great trade for the Cubs. Cost controlled back-end starter for 1 year of a reliever. They should try and re-sign Marshall next offseason, then they’d be clear winners in this deal. I’m not expecting much from the prospects, likely a couple throw-ins.

    • Tedtop16

      You are drinking the kool aid a little early on this deal. Let’s see what else we picked up on the deal.

    • Aaron

      If Wood is your gauge for a “great trade”, then you are horribly mistaken here.

      Marshall was incredibly valuable, and Epstein was absolutely right when he said Marshall was the best lefty in the game.

      Wood is a two-pitch starter, and is about league average at best. He throws a 88-92 mph cutter and an above average changeup, but his breaking pitches are rated the worst that I’ve ever seen from a “starting caliber” pitcher at about a 40 on the 80 scale.

      If you look at his stats in the minors, they’re average at best.

      The two prospects will determine if this is a “win” for the Cubs…don’t pop the cork of the champagne yet.

      If the Cubs get any of these guys: Hamilton, Stephenson, Corcino, Cozart (HIGHLY unlikely), or H. Rodriguez….then they win the trade…plain and simple, because Marshall is FA eligible after the season….

      but if they don’t get at least one of the guys I just listed, it’s a complete loss…and why do I say that?

      It’s because…
      1) Marshall is a better pitcher than Wood, and even has experience as a starter, which his most recent experience in that role was an under 4 ERA

      2) He’s rated the best lefty reliever in the game right now

      ….Wood doesn’t even compare, so if they don’t get a top prospect or two, the Cubs got hosed (yet again…just as they did in the Stewart/Weathers trade)

      • Schwimmer

        I agree with your logic on the MARSHALL trade.
        You are right:  it comes down to who “else” we get in that trade.

        But what is your logic to say that the CUBS got “hosed” on Stewart/Weathers trade?  

        What was so great about COLVIN (and Maheiu)???

        You are a sharp observer.  Please explain your thinking?

        • Jay From Sandwich

          Maheiu hits for High average and Colvin at worst could be a good home run type pitch hitter. Where Stewart is another Steve Ontaveras a good glove (which is still questable by some experts and a 150 hitter at best 220)

          • Tony_Hall

            DJ is a singles hitter that might hit for a high avg at the major league hitter.

            Colvin we have seen his worst and it is really bad.

            You can show the ceiling on the guys we gave up and the floor on the guy we got.

      • Scott

        I am not disputing your grades for Wood’s pitches, but where are you getting that information?  I would love to see all of his grades, plus the grades for other people.

      • Brett

        I would take Venters from the Atl as the best lefty reliever in the game and I doubt I’m alone. However, that doesn’t take away from the fact that the haul the Cubs get better be worth Marshall’s value which is very very high. I would think that his July 31st deadline value, if he performs on par with his last 2 yrs, would net even more but if the brain trust feels the need to move him now…well…thats why they don’t call any of us for input,

      • Dorasaga

        Aaron, you know your pitching, but I watched a lot of Reds game in 2010, and I also cannot agree with you on those stats.

        Wood, now age 24, is a younger pitcher who had lately improved, throwing 8+ k per nine innings and below 3 walks. That is not “average at best.”

        Marshall was never that good at the higher level (from AA to AAA) and compared to Wood at the same age. Marshall always had that stamina problem and a disability to limit runners coming home, that limited him to a lesser role. Wood can log the team 170 innings.

        Youth, command, durability–Wood got more than Marshall. The worst he’ll be is Gorzelanny, and the Cubs can always move him to the bullpen and convert him to become “the second best reliever” on a deep pitching-loaded roster.

        In addition to the years of team control, the Cubs are making a great steal out of “Value” with two more minor league talents coming our way.

    • Someone

      Chicago Cubs are going to send Marlon Byrd to the Texas for a 14 game winner Matt Harrison

      • Anonymous47701

        What’s the source of this news?

        • Aaron

          “wrongway Phil Rogers”

          It was pure speculation on his part and makes almost zero sense

          • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

            Agreed

  • Gary J

    The Reds are in a “win now” mode while they still have Votto under an affordable contract.  As such, I would expect the minor league guys to be low level but high upside.  Guys that aren’t close to the bigs, but have the potential to be ML contributors in 2-3 years.  We’ll see soon :-)  As for the principles – I love the deal too.  If the Cubs are truly out on Fielder and are instead in a foundation building frame of mind, then trading one year of Marshall (which means zero in the overall scheme of things) for 4 years of a former #7 prospect in the Reds system that has shown flashes in his two years as a starter (as well as dropping some real duds) is a smart move – especially if it’s a prelude to a Garza deal somewhere.  Wouldn’t be shocked if Wood slotted as our #2 or #3 by year end… also wouldn’t be surprised if he flopped… but this is a risk/reward kind of move for a 24 year old lefty starter and as such I’m behind it.

    • Tony_Hall

      Correct 1 year of Marshall for 4 years of T Wood and a couple of soon to be named prospects, does sound pretty good, especially if you figure we are getting a starting pitcher for a set-up guy (a very good one, maybe even the best LH set-up guy).  

      • cardswho

        Absolutely not a good trade unless we get a top prospect out of those 2. Who cares about the teams’ years of control. It’s called an extension. Marshall has started and even as a starter had better numbers than Wood. Wood is already 24 and isn’t going to get much better. He’s a 4+ ERA type of guy. Marshall is a sub 2.5 ERA type guy. I suspect that theo made sure to get some good prospects back and that’s what the hold up was.

        • Tony_Hall

          Amazing how we recall facts

          Marshall as a starter.

          4.86 ERA
          1.43 WHIP
          59 games started
          16-26 W-L
          271/341/443/784 

          http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=marshse01&year=Career&t=p

          Sorry he wasn’t that good of a starter.

          He was an exceptional set-up guy.

          Travis Wood’s home/away splits

          Home 294/352/464/816
          Away 237/299/362/661

          http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodtr01.shtml

          • Schwimmer

            Agreed!  MARSHALL was a horrible starter.  And, he found his niche as a “set-up” pitcher, esp. to face left-handed hitters.

            But let’s not turn this guy into some sort of ICON.  Who knows how well he’ll do in 2012?

            In addition to Travis Wood…it is the “other” 2 players that will make it clear whether this was a good trade for the CUBS.

            Somehow…I don’t think THEO & CO. would do this trade if they are just getting “2…throw-in” prospects.

  • jw

    I will keep an open mind on Wood based on the comments from many of those posting. I really hate to see Marshall go he was one of my favorite Cub players.I think he is an important piece to the Reds (or would have been for any contender’s) playoff hopes and a good acquisition for them, even if only for one year. It clearly signifies the new “Cubs way” and makes it hard to imagine them being serious bidders for Fielder or a significant threat in the NL Central in 2012. I will trust for now that Theo and company have a good plan and can evaluate talent.

  • cubtex

    White Flag for 2012 Hoisted! Cubs in compete rebuilding mode. More to follow. Look for Garza to go soon as well.

    • Skeldor

      This is just the tip of the iceberg, we are only a couple more moves away from contending next year!!!

    • Tony_Hall

      I believe that is what they meant by they will listen to offers on all players.  If they get an offer they like, they will deal out the old and bring in the new.

      Of course like all trades we won’t know for a few years, but this trade, we can know in about 1 year.  If Marshall doesn’t resign with the Cubs, it’s most likely, he wasn’t staying around anyway.  So getting something for him is better than letting him walk for nothing.  And if he resigns back with the Cubs, it’s a pretty good deal.

      • cubtex

        Tony….Do you think I will ever hear you go against any decision or trade Theo makes for the Cubs? :)  I really don’t think I will. I wonder what your posts would be if JH were still GM?

        • Tony_Hall

          Not right now you won’t. 

          The walls still haven’t dried from getting re-painted.

          They inherited a mess, it will take 2 off-seasons, to get a better idea of their moves.  They will be doing a lot of moves that the casual fan won’t like to see.  But they are moving out the old and getting back as much in return as they can to build the farm system, which is the foundation of the organization.    

          The major league team is going to have a different look and playing style than in the past, and considering the past was just plain awful, we should see a better overall quality of play, by having players, playing the game, more fundamentally sound.  

          Compared to watching ARam, Soriano, Byrd, Pena, etc, I am looking forward to watching the games next season.

          I’m even going to go to a game or 2.

          • Spoda17

            I totally agree Tony…

            I am excited to see this team.

            Look, Marshal was one of my favorite Cubs… but please keep this into perspective… he was a setup guy with one year left.  We got a lefty starter, that we all have been clamoring for…

            We all agreed months ago… not going to contend in 2012, so what’s the problem with the moves.  Were we going to win the WS… heck no… so let Theo and company rebuild.  Complain in 2013 and 2014 if it doesn’t work out… not 10 minutes in the change…

        • Tony_Hall

          If JH was still the GM, the lineup would be the same.  He would have re-signed Pena and ARam and kept K HIll.  He would have signed an OF like Cuddyer (wow would our OF defense be bad).

          1. Castro SS
          2. Barney 2B
          3. Aram 3B
          4. Pena 1B
          5. Cuddyer Rf
          6. Soriano LF
          7. Byrd CF
          8. Soto C

          He may have added a E Jackson to the rotation and had Garza, Dempster, Zambrano, E Jackson and had Wells and Cashner battle out for the 5th, and possible using both to replace Zambrano.

          This would all have been a band-aide for, another, last hurrah with this aging group.

          I’ll take “rebuilding” if that is what everyone likes to call it, I see it as knowing what doesn’t work and moving on.  

          This old group was out of it by the end of May, the last 2 years, I will bet you that this team is more in contention throughout the year then the team was in 2011.

          • cubtex

            Tony that is silly to assume what JH would have done. Give me a break!

          • Tony_Hall

            You asked what I would be posting if JH was still the GM.

            Had to take a look at what kind of moves he would have made to be able to think about what I would have posted.He would have kept his band together and added more aging vets to the group.

    • Guest1

      How in the world is trading a lefty set up man throwing in the white flag?  Theo is only making a move that Hendry should have made LAST YEAR – instead of saying he’s our future, he should have said, “Mike Adams is worth WHAT?” 

  • Roland

    Dave Kaplan at noon saying sources telling him trade not as close as it appears.  I wonder how much Kaplan will listen to those sources again.

  • Roland

    Hopefully last year was just a sophmore slump for Wood.

  • Kojak Osborne Jr.

    This trade is killing me softly lol. Wood had one good year and got shelled in  his second year, wait i saw this before , Yes , I did Randy Wells one good year then he was a complete bust, Are you kidding me you mean to tell me the Reds had the best deal , I sure everyone wanted Marshall we could of gotton a better deal. Let see if Garza will be next.

    • Dorasaga

      “Sell high, buy low.”

  • cubtex

    Like the shirts sold outside of Wrigley  WE GOT WOOD…… SQUARED. Let’s go get Brandon Wood so we can have 3 Woodys!

  • Anthony

    If you inherited an awful MLB Club at the same time the current FA Market was crapfula retreads, and your AAA guys are so that you decide to replace them with speculation signings(Stewart-Bianchi), and stop-gap(DeJesus), then one can conclude that the upper-levels are the major concern, meaning half the AA roster and what is left of the AAA journeymen.

    As the transactions keep unfolding, it appears more and more that the older players in the minors, and the high school ones that have been in a system for 5 plus years and stalled, will be replaced by the younger ones and new acquisitions.

  • Tony_Hall

    Reds fans don’t seem to think this was all that great of  a trade.

    Seems fans of all teams, are just more inclined to not like the moves made by their teams.

    One year of Sean Marshall for a 24 year old LH starter and a couple of prospects, seems awfully steep for them.  They feel that the Reds are going all in, for 2012.  

    IF one of those prospects is higher ranked, they will really feel like it was a bad deal.

  • cubs1967

    since this team is headed towards last and 100 losses for at least 2 years; instead of singing the national anthem; maybe the grounds crew could pop out with red noses on their faces from a yugo and sing the NA.  no reasons to sing Go Cubs GO anymore; either…….better to change it to Never Cubs NEver as in not winning a WS.

    at least I no longer will worry about siging Fielder…this move proves they are not in those discussions and Prince would be a dumb ass to come to this team……..

    103 yrs and counting…………don’t matter anymore……….

    • Scott

      I would bet you any amount of money that you would want that the Cubs will not lose 100 or more games for at least the next two years.  But I love your enthusiasm….

    • paulcatanese

      We should keep our spirits up,after all Aron Miles is still available, he should be cheap.

      • Coolpdxcubsfan

        Don’t forget Paul, we still have DeWitt.

        • paulcatanese

          Dang it, forgot that.:)

  • Tony_Hall

    Travis Wood
    Home/Away splits against 
    BA/OBP/SLG/OPS

    Home 294/352/464/816
    Away 237/299/362/661

    • Ripsnorter1

      Neil mentioned that we should check out his splits, so I did last night. What are you trying to teach us?

      And your point is…..?
      …..that he can’t pitch in a hitter’s park like Cincinnati?
      …..that he’d be better off in San Diego?
      …..that he’s only bad in Cincinnati?

      • Tony_Hall

        That he has a big difference home and away, for those that may not have read last nights info.

        A few bad outings in that park can skew your numbers pretty fast.

        I haven’t looked at his game by game stats yet.

        I just don’t get how people don’t see the big picture.  Adding a few band-aids to what we had, would have been JH’s job.  Theo and Jed’s job is to objectively turn over this team and make it a winner year after year, instead of short term runs, with aging vets.

        • cubs1967

          really…with the LH version of casey coleman…NOPE.

          i’ll bet any money there are not any top 10 prospects from BA coming from the Reds.

          this team  is gonna lose 100 next year, 90 in 2013 and hope to be .500 in 2014.

          that’s what a full rebuild is.

          NO free agents will come here.

          Garza is prob next.

          and Kerry should go to a contender; no need to stay around this crap while the cubs act like the Bucs.

          best part; NO gurantee this works; 2015 and this team could be pure crap and have to overspend to get FA.

          I predict payroll of 100M in 2012, 80M by 2013 and 65M by 2014.

          attendance will get killed.

          so will the cubs convention this year.

          ricketts, like all financiers from wall street; is a liar.  he’s taken the monies the last 2 yrs in increased tix and kept it.  he’s gonna do the same the next few years.  NO way in hell is this year’s operating budget the same.  pure crap.  people gotta wake up; he’s NO diff than any other wall street CEO; full of sh*%^^  and cannot be trusted.
          only give a damn about the bottomline.

          remember; he told the very economic challegened town of Mesa; he would build wrigleyville west if they gave him 100M for new spring training complexes in 2014.  so is he??
          nope; gonna wait till the economy is better; while cubs fans continue to spend monies and stay at hotels in tempe, old town and scottsdale.

          theo got a 5 yr deal publicly; 10 yr handshake.  explains why anyone would over pay 250K for a home in the worst housing depression ever in the US history.  in 10 yrs; he’ll make a profit.  no shot in 5.

          chicago bucs, 103 yrs and counting; on a freaking downhill to …………..

          • Tony_Hall

            Just so I get this straight, you believe Tom Ricketts is lining his pockets, by taking cash out of the Cubs.

            Even though they just spent personal money to buy the McDonalds property.

            Sorry, but it doesn’t make sense your way.

            And I will offer it again, I will take the under on the 100 loses you keep predicting.

          • cubs1967

            how so you think they bought mickey dees land; ??
            by moves like this of trading 3.1M for a guy who’s gonna make 450K.
            theirs 45M off this years payroll; be lucky if 25M is re-spent.
            next year is 40M; don’t see more than 20M coming back.

            there’s your 20M.

            stop believing a wall street CEO; i got some great B of A stock for ya at $10.

          • Tony_Hall

            If you believe they are lying to us all, there is no hope for you, to ever be happy with the Cubs management.

            I am also sorry for the B of A stock you own.  But don’t take that out on the Cubs.

          • John_CC

            ahh…nevermind…

          • Dorasaga

            No mind to blow up right now.

            But seriously, we fans need cubs1967. We should be continually reminded that the Cubs had failed its fans for 103 years.

            Phil Caverretta was low-balled because no one in the Hendry and Organization wanted to remind themselves that Phil was the last guy who got the Cubs somewhere.

  • Ripsnorter1

    One cannot be a successful 2 pitch starter in MLB, esp. when one throws a middling 88 mph fastball. 

    • cubtex

      As I said Rip…Theo is in complete rebuilding mode and I guess in your words “Quit”  for 2012. It is not wait till next year…….It is wait for a few years!

      • paulcatanese

        Well it’s easy for Theo to say that, he’s what, 37 years old?

        • Coolpdxcubsfan

          Yeah, and rich too! Easy gfor him to say!

    • Joey U

      He has three pitches, fastball, cutter @change  most lefty’s fastballs have a lot of movement……there many lefty’s that have had nice careers with below 90′s fastballs.It’s all about movement @ location

  • cardswho

    The minor leaguers better be top prospects or this trade makes absolutely no sense. We already have 2 “back of the rotation” type players that are better than Wood (wells and Cashner).

  • paulcatanese

    Sorry guys, I think this trade sucks. Too many variables,(if Marshall comes back next year) not likely. Looking at behind the Pirates for a few, not just next year. Back to the old days, last place and 100 losse’s all over again.
    If all the young guys go as well, whats to watch?

    • Tony_Hall

      Paul – I guarantee you will enjoy watching the team they field next year over what you have been watching.

      Marshall turns 30 next August

      • cubtex

        Yea Paul. DeJesus Stewart and Wood. It will be a party!

      • paulcatanese

        Yeah, and I turn 78:)

      • Schwimmer

        Tony:  Isn’t it unusual to announce a trade of WOOD for MARSHALL and not name the other 2 prospects?

        It makes me wonder if there isn’t some special reason their names were not announced in the trade.

        What do you think is the reason that their names were not announced???

        • Tony_Hall

          Yes and no.

          The reason is simple, time to let the deal sink in to, hopefully the Reds fans, that they are giving up 2 more prospects on their Top XX prospect list.

          It is also possible, since the trade hasn’t been announced by the teams, that they are still haggling over the prospects.

    • Spoda17

      Paul, no chance… you’re smarter than that post…

    • Ryan7

      Someone better get big z a patted room. His blow up last year was over the fact that the team sucked. Just think about what he is going to do this year now that the team is worse than last year. WOW I doing even want to know what’s going to happen. I’m a big cubbie fan but guys THE CUBS SUCK. And that hurts to say after the changes that took place.

  • Tony_Hall

    Good scouting report from beginning of 2010 season on Travis Wood

    http://redlegsbaseball.blogspot.com/2010/04/2010-top-prospect-list-4-travis-wood.html 

  • Anthony

    good time to discuss Garza and Z also

    simply put, in a transitional period and “rebuild” if you want to call it that, the wins these two pitchers can provide essentially go “all for naught”, become meaningless when there is an overall snowballs chance of contending, therefore, they need to bring back in players high-level pitchers on the verge and several Top10-15 prospects.

    Insert these players acquired into the system, unfortunately, get rid of the older stalled guys in the minors, then assemble in Mesa, see what they all can do, and make the proper assignments.

    I still feel strongly contributors will come from the draft class of 2011 and some may be unexpected surprises.

    If Theo felt decent players like Flaherty and MG were not worth protecting in R5, imagine how they feel about the most of them who were on that list? Many of those are subject to replacement, and this deal with the Reds, and forthcoming ones that garner additional prospects are the replacements.

    You can figure out who they are by roster combing.

    If Miami is really a player for Z, one would think it would have to be for more than a one-year deal, and that would have to be structured first to muscle out a better take from the Marlins.

    Appears the AL East would be the landing spot for Garza.

    Me thinks a youth movement is a good thing. Whoever plays CF(not Byrd), they will keep Campana up as a backup, and maybe use him more.

    Sell Soriano back to Nippon. Rather see a B Jackson go through his acid test early on and take his lumps, see what he can do.

    It can be entertaining watching young, hungry players, some with a lot to prove, some trying to bounce-back without the spoils of huge dollars parked in the bank accounts.

    The lazy players are the ones that were in it for the “dinero” anyways.

  • Tony_Hall

    Travis Wood’s fangraphs page.

    Shows his pitch breakdown
    Fastball 60%
    Cutter 16.6%
    Change up 13.1%
    CurveBall/Slider 9.6% (I combined them)

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9884&position=P

  • Ripsnorter1

    I am not sad about losing Marshall.

    I will only hate this trade if Wood is all that we really get.  I know there are two minor leaguers coming with him, but are they a handful of garbage, or are they real prospects? This Wood isn’t going to be much better than CASEY COLEMAN.

    • Tony_Hall

      Sorry but he is better than Casey Coleman, not even close.

  • Tony_Hall

    Travis Wood’s starts at home in 2011

    4 Quality Starts
    26 IP 8 ER 2.76 ERA

    4 Bad starts (3 really bad)
    18 1/3 IP 25 ER 12.27 ERA

    Full year outside of 4 bad starts (I know they all count)

    3.29 ERA

    25 of his 57 ER were given up in just 4 starts.

  • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

    Marshall will be in Cincinnati tomorrow for his physical.

    • Aaron

      I assume this means we won’t know the identities of the prospects til then as well. Is that your understanding too?

      • RynoTiger

        actually from what I hear, we’ll know the prospects as soon as the Epstein compensation is worked out.

        It makes me wonder now, if one of the prospects is good, will that guy go to Boston for compensation..hmm…or maybe Wood is the compensation the Sox wanted but couldn’t get so Theo got it for them…yes that’s it..so our ultimate return will be that we get Dusty’s son as bat boy…that’s it!  I figured it out!

        • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

          Where did you read that?

          From earlier today:

          As for the compensation package for Theo Epstein that remains unresolved. According to reports from the Chicago media and the Boston media, that issue has been pushed to the backburner and the Cubs are not expected to give up any of their top prospects as compensation for Epstein… and will likely be lower-level prospects. According to ESPN Boston, it would come as a surprise if the Red Sox receive more than a run-of-the-mill prospect or two from the Cubs for Epstein. And the same is expected to be sent to San Diego for Jed Hoyer and Jason McLeod.

          http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2011/12/cubsnewsrumors_41.php

        • Coolpdxcubsfan

          Just so that they promise to keep Dusty!

      • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

        Aaron, that is what I am thinking.

  • Anthony

    There is more excitement for the unannounced 2 minor leaguers?

    I like that, but Hamilton won’t be included, so don’t get in a frizzy.

    saw Hamilton play several times in Dayton

    Fastest ragdoll you ever want to see

    Would you be ready for a throwback slap that turns a dink into a double versus bloated inflated contracts for 25 HR’s a season?

    How about some 1980′s STL/KC baseball?

    You want 1 and 8 in the order as pesky suvanah-beeetch drive the pitcher crazy with stress types, hope your pitcher can bunt, then your best singles hitter 2nd, best contact guy 3rd with EBH potential, toss in a couple bombers 4 and 5, the solid bats, tweeners 6 and 7, and hope they can all play defense.

    In ain’t hard to figure the Formula out, just difficult to assemble all at the same time, and I still will say…………..

    cycle out the rest of the cheaters

    Can we sell anyone to Japan?

    • Anthony

      forgot to mention this

      will drug testing bring back the traditional 2B/CF offensive players versus trying to put 3 hole hitters everywhere in the lineup?

  • Tony_Hall

    One other thing, we don’t know.  Maybe they wanted Marshall to stick around and they offered him a contract extension and he said no.  Maybe he thought he could get more money at the end of next year, maybe he didn’t want to stick around.  Maybe he plans to go into free agency and try to secure an opportunity to start again.

    It’s just another example of what we don’t know, that goes into all of these decisions. 

  • Spoda17

    We all wanted change.  Well, now we have it…  Really, do you actually think what we have right now is worse than last year?

    News flash, we are not going to the WS next year, so I really don’t care if we finish last if it sets us up for the future.  If there is one thing you cannot knock Theo for is sustained winning.  Theo has proven he can build a winner.

    So let’s let him do it…

    • Ripsnorter1

      I think the 2012 Cubs, as currently constructed, is worse than the 2011 Cubs.

      No 1BNo 3B (please don’t tell me Stewart is a 3B).
      No Marshall
      No Flaherty
      No LeMahieu

      Only added Wood and Stewart. 

      Yes, we are not yet better off.

      • matthew8510

        not yet we still got 3 months till st

      • cubtex

        Thats what I have been saying Rip

        • Ripsnorter1

          You have been saying it correctly, too.

      • cubs1967

        all those people on here screaming for the iowa cubs; are gonna get their wish; this team is not worse than last year; it is horribly worse.  100 losses all day long worse.
        sveum is basically doug collins; will get team to point b they hope; will see if to point c in 3 yrs; which is his lenght of contract; they have no intention of trying to contend or reward their fans till 2015.  this is a full blown out rebuild.  why would you trade the best LH RP at age 29 for a 5th starter??

        basically; gonna throw young suspects/prospects at the wall; see who sticks in 3 yrs; hope it works; and them sign FA to fill in pieces.

        but theo and jed have never done this; the padres got worse each year he was there; and theo had contending teams in boston.  so their genius has NO expereince in doing this.  and there won’t be any 2.5M bonus for dillion maples types anymore NOR soon any more internation signings like the cuban CF will get.

        sad but true, the chicago bucs will be worse for awhile than their alter ego, counterpart the real  pittsburgh bucs.

      • John_CC

        Actually, snorter, Flaherty and LeMahieu had nothing to do with the 2011 Cubs.  You hated Pena and did nothing by rip on him the entire season.

        Travis Wood is a far better #5 starter than Coleman, Silva, Russell, Lopez…whatever…

        DeJesus is a better hitter than Fukudome.

        Aramis was a bum.

        Quade is gone.

        I honestly do not think the current lineup is worse than last year.  Not that that is praise. The Cubs sucked last year, in case you forgot.  I am not saying the team as of today is any better, but they are younger, cheaper, have upside and are no worse.

        • cubtex

          John. Cmon….be realistic. Next years lineup is not complete but there is NO WAY the lineup is as good now as last years. No Aram No Pena No Fuko(who has a higher OBP than DeJesus) and you are relacing those 3 with a career minor leaguer in LaHair…. DeJesus who hit. 250 and Stewart who hit. 150. Its not even close!

          • John_CC

            Opinions.

            I think LaHair could hit .240 with 25 HR. I think Stewart can hit .250 / 25 HR. DeJesus is a better hitter than Fukudome, career lines, respectively: .284/356/421 –  .260/.360/.399.  So Dome’s OBP is  4 tenths of one percent (.004) better, he can walk but he can’t hit. They both avg. 12 and 11 HR per 162 games, yet DeJesus averages 70 RBI while Fukudome 54. Runs, which are based on who hits behind you, I know, but still DeJesus’ 162 game avg: 90, Dome’s: 74.  And it’s not like DeJesus has been hitting in a stellar lineup either. You cannot tell me Fukudome is better than DeJesus, he is not.

            Aramis vs. Stewart is the only real loss here. But considering what Aramis did when he did it, I don’t consider it a big loss. And Stewart’s defense is better.  And he is younger and he wants to prove himself, not just earn one more contract. I won’t miss Aramis (and I am NOT a fan of Stewart).

            Quade is gone.

            I don’t think the current team – which I do not think will be the opening day lineup – would be worse than a 71 win team. 

            Opinions. We’ll see.

    • cubs1967

      proven??………..suggest you go look at the red sox roster before he took over; then tell me how he built it??

      • Spoda17

        bro.. a decade of October baseball…  proven to me…  2 rings…  how many do we have..?

        open your mind Cubs1967…

        • cubs1967

          your right…….he did not have manny ramirez all roided up, david ortiz, johhny damon, etc.

          none of them……..

          red sox did not win 93 games the year he took over. nope.

          or a 175M payroll.

          ummmmm……..seriously dude; where have your been the last decade?

          • Spoda17

            bro, did Theo take roids..?  if we won 2 WS in the past ten years you would discount them… really… you work with what you have, and he won… get over it… he won.. cant take it away from him…

    • John_CC

      Thank you Spoda!  News flash:  I love the sanity!

  • Ripsnorter1

    Interesting facts about Travis Wood….

    1. According to Baseball Reference, the 2 nd pitcher most like Wood at his current age is…..Paul Maholm.  Recognize the name?  Mr. 6-14 last year for the Pirates.  http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodtr01.shtml

    2. Does not give up the HR very often….10 taters in 106 IP in 2011. 

    3. Walks too many: 40 BB in 106 IP.

    4. Horrible WHIP: 1.491

    5. Fanned just 76 in those 106 IP.

    6. Here’s how he looked as a starter in 2011….18 starts….

    #1…7 IP….1 ER
    #2…5 IP….6 ER
    #3…6.2 IP…1 ER
    #4…3.1 IP…6 ER
    #5…6.1 IP…3 ER
    #6…3.1 IP…7 ER
    #7…6.0 IP…2 ER
    #8…6.2 ER…0 ER
    #9…6.0 IP…2 ER
    #10..5.1 IP…4 ER
    #11..6.0 IP…3 ER
    #12..6.0 IP…3 ER
    #13..4.2 IP…8 ER
    #14..8 IP…2 ER…11 H
    #15..6 IP…1 ER
    #16..7 IP…4 ER
    #17..5 IP…0 ER
    #18..2.2 IP…4 ER

    There you have it: 18 starts….8 good starts….3 mediocre…7 bad starts.

    Only 5 bases stolen off of him in 2011…5 CS in 2011….

    Not a Ground Ball pitcher….

    League hit .293 off of him…

    Lefties hit him to the tune of .316…

    OBP for LH batters: .386
    OBP for RH batters: .350

    As a starter, the league hit .302 off of him with .833 OPS and .472 slugging.

    • Mark

      Wow!  Thanks Ripsnorter1.  Again, we just gave someone, a lefty, a relief P and our most effective pitcher away for garbage.  What a shame!

      • Jeff in AZ

        In all fairness (and respect to your opinion), I don’t think the kid is garbage and he has the potential to be a 4 or 5 lefty starter in a very thin starting rotations. Marshall is a great lefty guy out of the pen, but if we don’t get some starting pitching we are not going to even care who is in the bullpen.

    • cubs1967

      in 2 words:

      he sucks!

      • John_CC

        Which FA starting pitchers do you want?  Buehrle? He pretty much said he would never play for the Cubs. CJ Wilson?  Edwin Jackson, he of a career 4.46 ERA and 1.48 WHIP and 3 years older? Who? WHO?!

        I’ve asked you before, who should the Cubs be acquiring right now in order to contend next year?  But you never come up with anything expect this kind of garbage…rather tacky, too.

        in 2 words:

        Stay Classy

    • gary3411

      2010 didn’t count huh? Was that whole year some sort of extended Spring Training and his 1.08 WHIP (way better than Garza’s BEST year ever, and at age 23) should just not be in consideration at all? Take the averages of the 2 if your going to post stats or at least mention his 2010 numbers

      • Ripsnorter1

        Casey Coleman’s 2010 stats were pretty good, too….

        Here’s Wood vs Coleman in 2010:
        17 GS….. vs………. 8 GS
        5-4 3.51 ERA….. vs……. 4-2 3.33 (as a starter)
        1.081 WHIP……..vs……..1.356 WHIP
        102 IP in 17 GS=6 IP/GS…vs……48.2 IP in 8 GS=6 IP/GS

        Coleman had the better record, winning percentage and ERA…….

        • gary3411

          WHIP isn’t even close, coleman stranded a bunch of runners resulting in a skewed ERA in a small 8 game sample size, that is pretty obvious. Over a whole season with a WHIP that high his ERA would have been over 4 (and I realize a groundball pitcher like Coleman can get away with a higher WHIP, but Wood as you said doesn’t give up many HR’s anyway)

          Should have compared Wood’s first 17 GS vs Coleman’s so its a comparable sample size not one having started less than half the games of the other. Any AAA-caliber groundball starter can have a string of fortunate 8 starts in the majors and post a 3.33 ERA, but not many pitchers at all can start 17 games with a 1.08WHIP no matter how lucky they get.

          • Ripsnorter1

            I understand your point, and here’s mine: 

            The league adjusts to a player, and a player must make adjustments to their  adjustments to him. So I look at the most recent year to get a feel about how a player is handling the pressure and adjustments against him. 

            Another point, not applicable to Wood because he is so young, would be that as a player ages their abilities deteriorate, and taking stats from two or three years previous may not be indicative for what the player may be able to produce at his age.
            Believe it or not: I wasn’t trying to skew the stats. I listed every single start of 2011 in the MLB, and did not mention his 10 2011 MiL starts.

          • John_CC

            Correct, just look at Randy Wells’ first season.

        • John_CC

          Rip: W-L does not mean anything. ERA and more so, WHIP tell how a pitcher performs, not the team around him.

          • Ripsnorter1

            Think about this: 
            1 IP 1 H….WHIP=1.00
            If that hit is a single or a HR, it still is a WHIP of 1.00…..

            ERA means something.

          • John_CC

            My main point was that W-L percentage doesn’t mean squat. ERA is better, but WHIP is better than ERA to judge a pitcher, team not withstanding. Walk, hits per inning pitched. When he starts putting more than 1.3 men on base per inning, he is going to give up runs, no matter what.

            The difference between a 3.50 and 3.30 ERA, 0.2 runs per 9, is not all that significant. The difference between putting 1.1 men on base vs. 1.4 men on base per inning is much more significant. 1 man per inning is essentially zero runs, anything more means allowing runs.

          • Ripsnorter1

            You are right. I agree with you.

      • Ripsnorter1

        You are correct. I should have posted his minor league numbers from 2011 also. He made 10 starts at AAA this year, was 2-3 with a 5.33 ERA. In 54 IP, he gave up 62 hits, 6 HRs, and had a 1.548 WHIP in Louisville, KY.

        • gary3411

          and ’09 numbers? Guy had a bad year last year. 2 of last three have been very good. sophomore slumps happen, but so do first year wonders, we cannot at this point know which will continue from here on out, but if it’s an average of the 2 which I am thinking, he is not a bad pitcher by any means (don’t even compare to wells lol hes like 5 years older)

          • Ripsnorter1

            Travis Wood did not pitch in MLB in 2009. He did pitch in AA (19 GS, 1.21 ERA, 9-3) and AAA (4-2, 3.14 ERA in 8 GS). FANTASTIC STATS–no question about it.

            2010 in AAA he was 5-6. 3.06 ERA, which was very good, too. WHIP was 1.100. 

          • cubtex

            In 2000 he threw a 1 hitter for his little league team.

      • John_CC

        That wouldn’t support the argument though, gary.

    • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

      How old is Maholm? How old is Travis Wood?

      • Ripsnorter1

        Baseball Reference said, that at age 24, the 2nd closest pitcher whose stats were most like Wood, at age 24, was Paul Maholm. The pitcher most like Wood at age 24 was Pete Richert. Richert is now 72, and since he pitched in the 1960′s and early 1970′s, I didn’t mention him. 

        Again, here’s the link–its near the bottom of the page, and entitled “Similarity Scores”:
        http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodtr01.shtml

    • Dorasaga

      This is misleading. Again, could one year do justice to any pro. player?

  • Jeff in AZ

    I’m all for this trade. We need starting pitching. This kid is 26 we have him locked for 3 years and he adds depth to a very thin rotation. He also is a lefty.

    • Jeff in AZ

      Correction: 24 years old and arbitration eligible in 2014. He made 422k last year. Young, lefty, and low walks. Upside trade.

  • Ripsnorter1

    Well, here’s your LH starting pitcher. 

  • Jeff in AZ

    This trade fills a glaring hole in the rotation. This kid is 24, a lefty, who does not walk a lot of guys. We need starters and a lefty. Marshall is a great guy to have out of the pen but he we have some southpaw options for the pen in-house, not for the rotation.

    If I understand the contract details we have him locked at 422k till he is arbitration eligible in 2014. Not bad. I think the minor leaguers in the deal just balance out the deal because marshall obviously has the proven track record. I disagree with other posters that the other two players in the deal will decide if we won or lose. Travis Wood’s performance in the rotation will ultimately decide that.

    At his age, this kid still has potential to get better. He has good control so that is something that can’t be taught. My thoughts are of a potential Ted Lilly kinda guy who will keep you in games and give you a lot of innings.

    I agree with Theo that we need 7 to 8 starters going into the season, this helps accomplish that. You have to give talent to get talent, so I understand why we moved marshall.

    I’d rather have a guy like this added to the roster instead of another journey man.

  • cc002600

    this is a little off topic, but I have been thinking about this recently. Is it just me, or does it seem like Theo & Jed are not that high on Brett Jackson ? They haven’t said anythig, but if they were high on him, why get Dejesus and look at Coco Crisp ?  also, we keep hearing about how he will probably start at AAA. I mean if you are going to rebuild, which I’m fine with, why the heck are  you looking at 32 year old OF’s when your “best” prospect is supposed to be ready  or close to it ? 

    I don’t know, just seems a bit odd to me.

    thoughts ?

    • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

      That is not the way I’m taking it. They are trying to move Soriano and Byrd. There is nothing wrong with having depth.

    • gary3411

      I don’t think either has said they are looking into Coco Crisp have they? I don’t think they would actually do that unless both Soriano and Byrd are moved. but yes that would be odd if they plan to add Crisp as a starter and keep Byrd, unless they plan to just have Jackson take over for one of them, as both are 4th outfielder material and have been assigned that duty in the past, that’s an option too.

  • Jeff in AZ

    Anyone else think that the 2.7 million dollars the cubs just saved by moving marshall for wood could be used to sign another quality starter such as mahome or edwan jackson?

    • Ripsnorter1

      No. Not for a starter.

      The money will be used to hire more office help.

      FROM BOSTON.

      • cubtex

        Not for 3 more years! He pretty much cleaned them out. He needs to hire another cross checker to monitor the cross checker overseeing the National cross checker.

    • Tony_Hall

      Starting pitching depth #Cubs top priority, acquiring Wood doesn’t mean talks w/ pitchers such as Maholm & Francis stop http://t.co/EN8XxzoQ about 6 hours ago

  • Jeff in AZ

    Hey Neil…Change the name of the article to “From the Wire…The Cubs get more Wood” LOL

    • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

      And add in Johnson …

      • Aaron

        Oh snap…no u didn’t .lol

      • Jeff in AZ

        good stuff!

  • Zonk

    Theo and Co. will never say it publicly, but they have written-off 2012.  This trade is another example.  It’s a bad trade for 2012, but a good one for 2013-2016. 

    I personally think writing off 2012 is a good idea, as we burn-off alot of dead and bad money this year, giving us a chance to re-load long-term.  The only bad money after 2012 is the $36 mil for Soriano.  Otherwise, we have a clean slate.

    I think that is what Theo is going for, and I agree with that

  • John_CC

    I put this out this morning:

    I am going to compare two well regarded, left handed starting pitchers -
    both make their MLB debut’s at the young age of 23, these are their
    respective stat lines at the same age, and the same point in their
    careers, i.e. first season in the league. It is a simple as looking at a
    B-R. com, if you care to do a little research for your own argument of
    why this trade would be ridiculously bad or fair or somewhere in
    between.

    A: GS- 24, IP- 125, ERA- 5.59, WHIP- 1.50, K/9- 5.5, BB/9- 4.2
    B: GS- 17, IP- 103, ERA- 3.51, WHIP- 1.08, K/9- 7.5, BB/9- 3.4

    And
    to not be “cherry picking” on good season vs. one bad season, each
    pitchers respective lines over their first two full seasons combined,
    both at age 23 and 24.

    A: GS- 43, IP- 229, ERA- 4.83, WHIP-1.45, K/9- 5.7, BB/9- 3.7 HR/9- 1.3
    B: GS- 35, IP- 208, ERA- 4.18, WHIP-1.28, K/9- 7, BB/9 – 2.8, HR/9- 0.8

    Which player is a better pitcher at the exact same point his career?  Which would say has more upside at the age of 25?

    • Zonk

      It is a bit of a stretch to say Travis Wood is a younger Sean Marshall, but point taken.  Marshall didn’t come into his own until the last couple years, that is for sure.

      If you think 2012 is a write-off year, which I think Theo and Co. do, then this trade makes great sense

      It also makes sense for Cincy, who has a limited window with Votto under control to make some hay.  And the division looks winnable for them in 2012.  They are going for it.

      • John_CC

        Why exactly is it a stretch?  Is that a qualified statement, or your opinion? Wood has two big league seasons under his belt, both as a starter. The numbers are there.

        It is incredibly difficult to be a successful SP at such a young age. Very few kids come up and dominate from the age of 23, the ones that do are legit studs.

  • daverj

    My view of this deal depends on the prospects we get back.  What I don’t understand is how some people can be so certain that this is a “terrible trade” or “absolutely a bad deal”.  We can all have opinion on whether we like it or not, but the extreme views are pretty tough to fathom on a deal like this (as least without giving it a few years).

    • cubtex

      Exactly. It definately depends on that. For some on here to say Wood is better than Marshall is ludricous. Lets wait to see who the prospects are.

      • John_CC

        Why is it ludicrous?  How did you know, when Marshall was a 24 year old starter with good stuff but couldn’t stay consistent that he would turn into “the best LH reliever” – as some on here state?

        Do you honestly not see the parallel between these two? Am I missing something? Granted, I am only looking at the stats, I don’t have anything else to go on.

  • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

    Sun-Times: With
    starting pitching depth being Cubs top priority, acquiring Travis Wood doesn’t
    mean talks with pitchers such as Paul Maholm and Jeff Francis would stop,
    contrary to reports

    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/9588014-573/setup-man-sean-marshall-to-be-dealt-to-reds-bill-buckner-joins-minor-league-staff.html

    • John_CC

      Great. I didn’t think it would. I’d love to see 6 or 7 young pitchers all with MLB innings as starters competing for spots.

      Off topic: when are you going to Mesa, Neil?  I think I might be able to go again this year.

      • Tony_Hall

        Theo has said he wants to know who his 8th, 9th SP would be going into each year.  

      • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

        Yes, I am planning on it. Should be for the first 4 games. When are you going?

        • John_CC

          No plans yet, just considering. I think it’s a possibility.

  • Gary J

    I don’t get the angst.

    Sorry but I simply don’t see how trading a 30 year old left handed setup man with a two year track record of success and one year left on his contract at $3M and in return getting a 24 year old lefty starter that had a good 2010 and a down 2011 (but with a few bad starts – Tony has already done a great job of breakdown) that’s under team control for 5 years AND getting two additional players (quality as yet undetermined) equals a 100 loss season.
    Our starting pitching was more shallow than the kiddie splash pond at the local park.  And as good as Marshall was, he was a setup guy.  He ended up in the pen because he couldn’t cut it as a starter.  Two years ago, we would have traded him for a bucket of balls and a pack of gum and giggled about how someone was dumb enough to give us that much in return.  Heck when Wood pitched out of the pen last year he actually posted better stats than Marshall in the role (albeit in a limited sample).

    I like Marshall.  The above statement not withstanding, he’s someone that any contending team would love to have.  But the Cubs aren’t a contending team – and the Reds fans are thinking they are the ones that got hosed and they watched Wood every 5th day.  Tony’s breakdown really does paint the picture that this is a guy with some upside that had a few realllllly bad outings… and what second year 24 starter doesn’t?

    But with EVERY single one of the “doom and gloom” brigade on here smashing the previous regime about continuing to play the vets and not seeing what we had with the youngsters, why is that same crew bemoaning the loss of a 30 year old set up short timer?

    For those of you saying things like “Marshall was one of the few reasons to watch this team”…. really?  You go to the park out of the possibility that maybe the lefty set up guy will pitch that day?  Really?  Let’s be completely honest.  When you’re watching on WGN, do you really get giddy when Marshall walks in from the pen and you sit riveted to your TV?  Of course you don’t.

    He was good at what he did, but let’s not gild the lily here.

    I try to stay positive – I really do.  I’ll get into a debate here or there from time to time, but I always try to stay respectful.

    But the angst over this deal – it’s got me shaking my head. 

    Agree – disagree – it’s your right.  But things have just gone over the top.  

  • Dorasaga

    Guys, read this:

    http://redlegsbaseball.blogspot.com/2010/04/2010-top-prospect-list-4-travis-wood.html

    “Travis Wood took a huge step forward in 2009, establishing himself as one of the best lefthanded pitching prospects in all of the minor leagues.”

    “Wood still possesses the best change-up in the system, but… His fastball sits in the 88-91 mph range, which should be sufficient for a southpaw to be successful at the highest level. Wood is still trying to refine his curveball, which can roll and stay up coming out of his hand…”

    Secret sauce that put things together: Cutter.

    • Dorasaga

      This article explained a lot why 2011 was tough for him. When his cutter stopped moving in some games, he got pounded for his curveball. Tony already went through his “bad games” versus “good games” in 2011. It was half-half. His changeup will always be a “get away” secondary pitch, but he needs to work both sides of the plate to not give up that many hits. The cutter is his bread and butter.

      Of course, not every pitcher works both sides equally effective. We might not see a Cliff Lee or even Mark Buerhle anytime soon, but let’s remember, “Sell High, Buy Low.” If Wood develops more consistency and log us more than 170 innings per season for the next four years, as he showed he could from AA to AAA, then this might be the first “Great Steal” by Hoyer & Co.

      • Tony_Hall

        Ah the love and hate of the cutter.

        My son started throwing a cutter the last 2 years.

        When it’s on, he is almost unhittable to most batters, but when it is not moving at all, its very hitable, especially as he changes speeds and throws it at his slower speed, it’s more like a slow curve ball that just hangs there saying “hit me hard”.

  • Gmgross84

    Definitely going to miss Sean Marshall. My favorite pitcher, Greg Maddux, saw a lot of potential in him and took him in to teach him much about pitching in the show. That should not go overlooked and he has a lot of talent. I wish our Cubs management could have found him his true role on the pitching staff. Best of luck to him and his career in the future.