Cubs and Sox Making Progress on Compensation Talks

Congratulations to the Texas Rangers, the 2011 American League Champions …

The Cubs and Red Sox appear to be inching closer to a resolution and Theo Epstein officially joining the front office of the Chicago Cubs. According to a report from the Boston Globe, “an executive familiar with the negotiations described them as business-like, civil and moving forward over the weekend.” According to multiple sources, there have been no indications from either the Cubs or the Sox that talks would break down.

With the World Series set to begin on Wednesday, the feeling is the official announcement will be made at some point over the next three days.

Theo Epstein and the Cubs have reportedly agreed to a five-year deal worth around $20 million dollars. The Sox and Cubs have been discussing a compensation package over the last five days. The talks began with the Sox asking for Matt Garza then they turned their attention to Starlin Castro. After, the Cubs said no on both players the Sox started asking about the top prospects in the Cubs organization.

According to a tweet from Carrie Muskat, Brett Jackson will not be part of any compensation package.

The Globe also reported that it is unlikely any of Epstein’s assistants would be allowed to follow him to Chicago … but that could change when those current contracts expire.

As for whom Epstein could hire once he takes over baseball operations for the Cubs, multiple reports in recent days have indicated that Josh Byrnes could be reunited with Epstein in the Cubs’ front office.

Stay Tuned …

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"There are only two seasons ... winter and baseball." - Bill Veeck

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  • Demitri

    Neil, who would you give to make this deal go right?

    • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

      I keep hearing mid-level prospects are what the Cubs are offering.

      I would think a Jay Jackson and maybe one of the shortstops like Junior Lake. If the Cubs are happy with Soto, maybe one of the catching prospects … Castillo or Clevenger.

      • Tom U

        I agree with Neil, and I’ll toss around a couple of other names. Going through the minor league system recently, Marwin Gonzalez and Rubi Silva are two players that seem to fit the Red Sox needs. Both are offensive players with good defensive skills. Both are multi-positional. Their games seem to be suited for the American League.

        • Dorasaga

          Great insight. I hope the Lucchino’s men were reading this!

    • RICK B

      I’d give them Zambrano and Soriano. If not give them Koyie Hill.

  • Tony Spumoni

    Matt Garza??   Starlin Castro???  I don’t think so.

  • Anonymous47701

    Lineup / Bench idea

    B.Jackson-CF
    S.Castro-SS
    L.Morrison-LF
    B.LaHair-1B
    M.Cuddyer-RF
    R.Flaherty-3B
    D.LeMahieu-2B
    W.Castillo-C
    Pitcher

    C.Davis-INF
    D.Barney-INF
    J.Molina-C
    T.Campana-OF
    T.Wright

    • Anonymous47701

      Rotation / Bullpen idea

      M.Garza
      M.Buehrle
      R.Nolasco
      W.Rodriguez
      A.Cashner

      S.Marshall-setup
      C.Qualls or K.Wood-setup
      J.Samardzija
      J.Beliveau
      C.Carpenter
      J.Russell
      C.Marmol-closer

    • datkid

      why do Cub fans have a crush on Chris Davis? If you’ve seen him play, you wouldn’t want him here!!

      • cubtex

        I’ve seen him and don’t want him. Talk about a lot of holes in a swing???

      • Ripsnorter1

        I have no love for Chris Davis. Of course, Gramps would say I have no love for any Cubs. LOL

        • Gramps

          C’mon Rip……who do you have love for? LOL

          • Ripsnorter1

            Only you, Gramps. Only you.  

            : )

          • Ripsnorter1

            Hey, trade Zambrano to Boston for Epstein. No cash involved. Boston pays for Z’s contract. They get a frontline starter. We get Epstein. We pay Epstein. They pay Zambrano. Everybody wins. 

            LET’S GET IT OVER WITH ALREADY!

    • cubtex

      I like that outfield! Would love to sign Cuddyer and Logan Morrison would be great pickups. I don’t like that infield at all! Flahery,LeMahieu and LaHair…Really?? How about Michael Young,Castro,LeMahieu and Casey Kotchman? That would be a solid team.

      • paulcatanese

        I really think that Young would be a tremendous aqusition,but probably not very good odds at getting him. He looks very solid and could really help in the infield, especially at third base.

        • cubtex

          I was thinking short and moving Castro to 3rd :)

          • paulcatanese

            I was waiting for that. but just being honest Young would be great, not as good as Castro at third but I could live with it.:)

    • daverj

      Who are you proposing we trade for Morrison and Nolasco?  That package would cost a couple top tier prospects.

      • cubtex

        I don’t think either would cost a bucketload of prospects. Nolasco is high paid and wasn’t good last year(lost several mph off his fastball) and the Marlins would love to unlead the king of tweets LOMO.

        • daverj

          I agree that it wouldn’t cost a boatload of prospects, but as much as the Marlins would love to deal Morrison, I can’t see them letting him go for anything less than a top prospect.  Maybe Brett Jackson, McNutt and a third prospect could get Morrison and Nolasco, but that’s probably not enough from the Marlins point of view.

  • Calicub

    Its funny reading Boston fans twitter posts screaming at the cubs for being so stingy.

    “Theres precedent this season for these kinds of trades… you want him pay for him, WAH WAH WAH.   GIMME GIMME GIMME.   WINE WINE WINE. BITCH BITCH BITCH.

    The Cubs would be picking up the rest of his salary, plus I’m sure extra cash but no they want more.

    Fine the Cubs no longer want Theo Epstein.  Enjoy that ticking time bomb boston.  I mean seriously, do they really think that if this deal doesn’t happen things will go back to normal?  Theo wants out, Cherrington is sick of being teased and wants his fair shake. Give me a break, not making this deal would be a disaster for the red sox.

    They can have money and koyie hill.  And if they smile extra nice maybe they get a bag of balls too.

    • Calicub

      Go Tom!

      Barring a ridiculous trade you seem to be standing your ground, and maybe you’ve shown that you may actually have a pair hidden away somewhere down there

  • Tony_Hall

    Since day one of the Theo watch this was a negotiation, between the Cubs and Theo, Theo and Boston, and Boston and the Cubs.  I would have said that Theo and Boston would be the most difficult part, but now it is obvious that I had the wrong Boston negotiation as the most difficult. 

    But this is a negotiation.  It is not where Boston, says, this is who it will take, take it or leave it.  

    This deal will get done, and Boston, is looking foolish, but don’t blame them for starting with Garza, Castro or Jackson.  They are using the, raise the other teams thoughts of who they will give up, by going way higher, so that they can get better prospects, by making them seem like they negotiated down.  

    I would of started with lower level guys, and kept adding a player, and switching names, to work up to the package that I wanted (if I were Boston).  This way, it gets them (the Cubs) to buy in little by little, to the # of players, and the names, by slowly getting more.  I don’t believe the East Coast understands this style!

    • Dorasaga

      I got a new thought on this whole “talent for GM” thing. Say, if Bret Jackson is not projected as a difference maker, won’t it be a good idea to trade him PLUS Soriano or Zambrano for Theo plus a well-touted mid-level prospect (AA preferably; those stats reflect better)? Sell high.

      • Tony_Hall

        No.  Just because a player isn’t projected to be a difference maker, doesn’t mean you get rid of them.  Teams, as you know, need lots of players that are above average, but below, that difference maker label.  

        No team is going to consider Soriano or Zambrano compensation, even if we paid a big part of their salary.

  • Tony_Hall

    From Keith Law’s Blog on ESPN Insider – I hate to say it, but I think he is right about Cashner for 2012.  He won’t be able to go to 150+ innings in 2012

    http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/law_keith/id/7105603/pittsburgh-prospect-gerrit-cole-impressive-pro-debut-mlb Chicago Cubs right-hander Trey McNutt showed great velocity but well-below-average command and control in that same game, sitting 94-96 with a changeup that flashed plus but was wildly inconsistent. McNutt is very athletic with a slider that you could easily project to above-average or better, but he was unable to repeat his delivery on Thursday and was consistently behind hitters — the plus fastball is great, but hitters won’t chase it unless it’s in the same ZIP code as the strike zone.• Cole is just the third pitcher to reach triple digits out in the AFL so far. Two Cub right-handers have done it as well — Chris Carpenter in the first week and Andrew Cashner twice this week. Cashner missed most of 2011 with a sore shoulder, but I think it’s fair to say he’s healthy again, sitting 96-100 with an above-average changeup.Cashner has the three weapons to start, but not the durability, and between the shoulder issue and him throwing just 15 innings during the entire regular season, the Cubs can’t jump him into a starter’s role and ask him to handle 150-plus innings in 2012. He could work as a reliever next year, build up arm strength, and if the shoulder checks out perhaps return to the rotation at some point in 2013.

    • cubs1967

      in Quade speak; Cash can’t go more than 150 IP next year; too big of a jump.  Quade won’t understand this which is why Sandberg needs to be in there who has managed all kinds of injuries, call-ups, call-downs in the minors.  Law is stupid to say put him in the pen for ’12; that won’t get him over 150 IP in ’13 either; too much of a jump.  get Cashner to 150 in ’12; then work to 190 or so in ’13; when the Cubs should be much better. Plus they need to find out if his arm can handle it as a starter; here’s hoping; because if not he becomes the closer.  He bascially had this year off so the IP should not be piling up on his arm to be a starter unless his arm just can’t do it…………..hope not. 

      • cubtex

        Exactly! He has huge upside as a starter. Limit his pitch counts and innings next year and if he needs to skip a start or 2 here and there…..that’s what you do.

    • cubtex

      You can start Cashner next year and limit his innings…… just like a lot of teams do with young pitchers.

      • Tony_Hall

        I want him to be tried as a starter.  But they will need to limit his innings, next year, which could mean starting him at AAA at the beginning of the season, or limiting him to 5 max 6 IP all year, and skip a start here and there.

      • paulcatanese

        Not if Qua is still around, Cashner will be on the disabled list within a month into the season. Qua will immediatly push Cashner beyond his limit.

      • cc002600

        Mark my words, starting will ruin him.
        He reminds me so much of Wood.
        He already has shoulder issues. that is a red flag

    • cc002600

      that’s exactly what I have been saying…..I hate to say it but hard throwers who are starters almost always seem to break down.It’s just too much stress. 
      He should be in the bullpen.  If you add him and Carpenter to wood, marshall, marmol, russel, shark I think you have the makings of an excellent bullpen.

      • cubs1967

        cubs need to go into next year w/ garza, demp, cashner plus 2 others; and make wells the flex guy.  available for missed starts due to Dl and 6th guy to skip cashner every few starts and anyone else needing a breal-might help demp.

      • cubtex

        Tell that to Nolan Ryan.

        • cc002600

          yea, well how many Nolan Ryans are there ?
          He was a freak of nature. There are exceptions to every rule. 

          I think you will find that most starting pitchers that avoid the DL are not power pitchers….like Glavine, Maddux, Hallady, Cliff Lee, etc.

          cashner has already had shoulder issues, that is a red flag. You don’t mess with shoulders, those type of injuries are career enders.  Ask Prior.

          • cubtex

            Justin Verlander, CC Sabathia, Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Felix Hernandez and the list goes on. It is about mechanics…..not because they are power pitchers.

          • cc002600

            lincecum and cain are still very young, without a lot of wear and tear yet…..just wait…..plus, I’m not so sure either of them throw that hard.

            I would not consider Felix Hernanadez a power pitcher…..when I’m talking power pitcher, I’m talking about guys who throw 96+.

          • John_CC

            Cain threw 46 relief innings in ’05. In 2006 he threw 190, every year since then he’s thrown over 200. Yes, he is still young at 26 but he’s averaged 200 innings a season for 6 years. And he throws hard.

            With your 96+ mph baseline, how many starting power pitchers are there? I can only think of a couple.

          • cc002600

            yea, I hear ya.  maybe that’s a little high. but either way, my only point is that the harder guys throw, the more stress that is placed on the elbow and shoulder. Doesn’t mean that every guy that throws hard will end up under the knife, but I think the chances are greater.

            And now that Cashner has already shown signs of shoulder trouble and he throws VERY hard, it makes more sense to me to protect him from the stress of throwing 200+ innings as a starter.  That’s my only point

          • cubtex

            Guys that throw 95 don’t necessarily put more strain on their shoulder than a guy who throws 88. Where did you come up with this? The shoulder doesn’t have a radar gun. A guy could have a more violent delivery at 89 than a guy throwing 97. What you are saying is hogwash.

          • cc002600

            more torque, more stress. Its simple physics. its not hogwash. It’s not the delivery or mechanics. If they had bad mechanics, they wouldn’t be in MLB. 

            If its not the stress and wear and tear why do they bother with pitch counts ? 

          • Ripsnorter1

            Kerry Wood had bad mechanics, and he is in MLB. Dean Chance threw across his body. He had great stuff until he messed up his arm and career.
            People make it to the ML with bad mechanics. They just don’t stay in the ML for very long when they do.

          • cubtex

            They never had pitch counts with Tom Seaver,Bob Gibson,Don Drysdale….all power pitchers and none of them broke down. It’s the love affair with sliders that hurt a lot of pitchers. Take a look at the power pitchers from the 60’s and 70’s and look how many innings and pitches they threw. It will blow you away.

          • cc002600

            mechanics ?? that is not the case at all.  Are you telling me that when pitchers end up getting surgery it’s due to bad mechanics ?? LOL

            It has NOTHING to do with mechanics. It’s about wear and tear and stress. Pitching is a violent motion that is placed on the elbow and shoulder that the human arm was not built for. Why do you think there are pitch counts ?

            Are you telling me that Wainwright had bad mechanics ?  Strasburg ? Johan Santana ?  Roger Clemens ? just to name a few that have gone under the knife…etc, etc, etc….

            On the flipside, all we heard for years was that Mark Prior had the greatest “mechanics” of any pitcher alive. How’d that all work out ?

          • Tony_Hall

            Great points.   Perfect mechanics can help on the wear and tear on the arm, but you are right, pitching is a lot of stress on an arm, and, it seems, now a days, most arms getting a knife to them, sooner or later.

          • cubtex

            Throwing is an unnatural movement of the arm regardless if you throw hard or not. To say power pitchers break down more than any other pitcher is not true. Proper mechanics help….but you are right, throwing a baseball is violent and unnatural and ANY pitcher can break down eventually.

  • Darrenmcculloch

    If it is pitchers the Red Sox want, give them Ramon Ortiz and Rodrigo Lopez.  They can’t be any worse than their drunken, chicken eating pitchers.  If they don’t like that, then re-sign Doug Davis and throw him in the deal. 

  • Jay from sandwich

    I new this was going to happen they want the future of the cubs. The cubs can not a ford to give them any quality player unless we have better in the system. We should only be dealing from our surplus of talent that plays the same positions. Picthing is not one of them. Shortstop, secoundbase catcher, etc. But we have to be keeping the best like of them so we are talking second or third tier

  • paulcatanese

    Mr. Ricketts, remember the old saying, “Stupid is as stupid does”. Dont make a mistake here and give away the farm.

    • paulcatanese

      I swear I didn’t know Forrest Gump just came on the TV.

  • Rbmercer

    Neil, were you serious that the Sox asked for Matt Garza and Castro????? Gasp! If so, my disdain for Henry and Lucchino is growing, the arrogance and idiocy of such a thing! I mean, even to think we would give up a top prospect is ludicrous.

    • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

      Yes, from the way I understand it the Sox asked for Garza then Castro.

  • Skeldor

    I give nothing for Theo there are too many other good options out there and there is no way Boston is going to want/take him back at this point.  I keep saying no to anything other than cash or Koyie Hill. 

    • paulcatanese

      I agree with what you are saying, but Koyie Hill is like no cash at all and  totally not a trade chip. What would any team do with him?,unless they needed a catcher for thier AAA team and then only as a backup.

      • Skeldor

        It was meant to be a joke LOL.  I’m saying that would be the only player I would give them. 

        • paulcatanese

          The reply was meant the same way,and both posts fit.

          • The Maven

            Paul, your new avitar is very suggestive

          • paulcatanese

            You know more than I do, I cant seem to get it on there. Let me know what you see, I would like to see it too.

          • paulcatanese

            OK, I think I know what you are talking about. Went back to Disqous and tried to change it, hope it works. Been trying to post a picture with no success. thanks for the tip.

          • Skeldor

            LOL, touche

    • John G

      I agree. Ricketts should close his briefcase and stand up. “I’m sorry the deal is off. You can pay him whatever you owe him for next year. We are going in a different direction.” Then head for the door.

      • Tony Spumoni

        Mr. Ricketts doesn’t carry a briefcase.  He has people to carry his briefcase for him.  But I like your style.

  • Jay from sandwich

    How many people (cubs fans) will back the Rickets if they sign say j. Burnes as GM on Tuesday and just quietly wait one more year and then sign Theo as the president of baseball operations? We have waited 103 years what’s one more to protect our prospects for a future that will include a ww victory in say five years? Tell the red sox to pond sand with a reasonable third tier prospect or two after all the cubs are paying off 7mil of the red sox contract all ready.
    give them a take it or leave it on Monday and mean it, while flying in or announce that you are interview the white sox ass. On Monday just in case. Play some poker here and back it up we will back you up as cub fans that is

    • daverj

      I like the Byrnes idea.

    • Tony_Hall

      Byrnes is the VP of Baseball Operations for the Padres and has Jed Hoyer, Executive VP/General Manager reporting to him.  I really doubt he would except a GM job, and the Padres would probably want compensation as well…

      I’ve wondered how it would work, for Byrnes to follow Theo to Chicago.

  • Tony_Hall

    Here is a good list of compensation packages for deals like this.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-1017-cubs-epstein-compensation–20111017,0,6369322.story

    Jon Gruden cost a lot!!

  • Ripsnorter1

    Cotton pick! Just offer ‘em Zambrano and be done with it!

    • Anonymous47701

      I’d Agree with you and Suzy, but here’s the problem: Zambrano’s a Major League Player, so he cannot be included in the compensation, unless the Red Sox or Cubs had no choice but to expand their options and include MLB Players. Maybe, and I mean MAYBE they can put Austin Kirk or Justin Bour on the compenstion block.

      • Tony_Hall

        I don’t get what your saying.  

        Why can’t Zambrano be included in the compensation? Even if they had to use the old – no choice but to expand their options clause.

        Either they can or they can’t use major league players, and the answer is, they can use major league players.

      • texcubnut

        Zambrano also has a no trade. He has leverage on the Cubs and may decide if you don’t trade me to Florida and my buddy Ozzie, then I’m staying put. I like Rip’s idea. Keep throwing up a player one at a time, you know, players you do not plan to use in the future, until you get the Bosox to bite and be done with it .The Cubs have alot of major/minor league players who will not fit in the future. Just get it done!! 

        • Ripsnorter1

          Zambrano has said in the past that Boston would be just fine with him. Boston needs starting pitching. It ought to make a good fit, imo.
          It would fix a lot of problems.

           If Z balks at it, fine. Just put him on the ML roster as a reliever or DL him, but ruin his career by not pitching him. Or rather Use him every single day in relief, and leave him in a long time and ruin his arm. I bet even Z would learn to cooperate.

          • J Daniel

            Rip,

            I know everyone is upset with Z as am I.  But no way do you do that.  Here is how I handle the situation knowing that he has 1 year left with an option if incentives are met:  First, I believe he will have a really good year as he wants another contract.  So, unless I can make a really good trade in which top prospects and no cash are involved I do not trade him.  I bring him back with these options – pitch poorly and you can put him in long relief or release him.  Pitch well, which I believe he will do, trade him to a contender at the deadline.  Act up again and do the same thing as this year – send him home.

            Actually the Cubs have the leverage with him.  Does he want out?  Not going to grant the big baby his wishes unless my demands are met.

  • cc002600

    Not in a million years would I have expected Cardinals to make World Series. Unbelievable.

  • studio179

    Not rooting for the Red Birds. Pulling for Texas all the way.

  • Ripsnorter1

    What a difference a REAL manager makes! Tony LaRussa does it AGAIN!

    Oh, if only the Cubs had him! 

    • John_CC

      and Albert Pujols and Lance Berkman and Matt Holliday and David Freese and Ryan Theriot and….

      • Ripsnorter1

        And Ryan Braun and Prince Fielder and Shawn Marcum and John Axleford and…..

    • Tony_Hall

      What everyone seems to forget, where would the Cardinals be if, they added another ACE pitcher to this staff, especially when he is already under contract in Adam Wainwright. I hate the Cardinals, but Larussa keeps pulling rabbits out of his hat.  He proves that if you have a solid core, you can supplement them with average players, as long as you know how to put those players in a position to succeed.

      Go TEXAS!! – Who I also want to remind everyone, that they had an ACE pitcher leave, via FA. 

      • texcubnut

        And another ‘near ace’ about to leave town. Of course, as my name might suggest, I too want the Rangers to smoke the Cards!!!

        • Tony_Hall

          Do you not think Texas will resign him?  With back-to-back World Series appearances, I would think they would be more willing to bring him back. Similar to the Cardinals, the money they made by making it all the way through the playoffs, to the World Series, helps pay for part of Albert’s contract.

          • texcubnut

            Tony, the talk here in Texas is that the rangers are going to try and go after C.C. Sabathia and throw a lot of money his way. The benefits are twofold; First. they succeed and sign him or make the yanks overpay the market for his services. They have publicly let this word out that they wan’t C.C. Now, Wilson knows this and has told his agent he wants to test free agent waters. This will be his last chance at a 3 or 4 year deal for the most he can get because of age. Will the rangers be able to afford both? Is the interest in C.C. just a ruse?.If Wilson is out there, the ballclubs with money will go after him. I guess the question is, should the Cubs go after him?

  • paulcatanese

    Looks like the Brewers picked up Qua for the playoffs to teach them fundementals, and he did his usual job.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Penrod/700030874 Jason Penrod

    We need to free up Salary- I say give them several top tier prospects as long as the take Zambrano and Soriano…Soriano will fit well at DH, David Ortiz is already saying he might not be there next year.  All the experts are saying Boston’s pitching is what cost them the playoffs.  It makes sense for us, it makes sense for them. 

    Give them Jay Jackson, Scuzur, Vitters, and Lehmehiau.  Take them, Take all of them, and I’d throw in more if they take all of Z’s and Soriano’s salaries.  With the salary relief we can sign Prince Fielder or Jose Reyes.  Maybe even make a push for Yu Darvish!  and have plenty of money left over for the future. 

    We don’t know what any of those young guys are going to do in the future.  We do know that Fielder/Darvish/and Reyes are excellent players, and barring a huge long-term contract they should work out well for us. 

    The only players that I would list as “un-touchable” are Castro, Garza, Cashner, McNutt, DeVoss, and Maples.  If I left out any “un-touchables” in your opinion let me know.  But with the previous regime in power we haven’t had much luck with “top-tier” prospects,

    So I say lets move some salary, and bring in Theo and some hand-picked assistants to come in and start over!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Penrod/700030874 Jason Penrod

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_Darvish
    This is the free-agent to go after!  Theo was able to lure Daisuke over, maybe he can try his hand with Darvish!