From the Wire … Hoyer and McLeod Officially Join Cubs Front Office

Theo Epstein has not wasted any time. A day after being announced as the President of Baseball Operations he has added Jed Hoyer and Jason McLeod to his staff.

Jed Hoyer and Jason McLeod have left the San Diego Padres organization effective immediately to accept positions with the Chicago Cubsthe Cubs will send a player to be named later as compensation for both Hoyer and McLeod.

Jed Hoyer has been named Executive Vice President/General Manager of the Chicago Cubs. Jason McLeod has been named Senior Vice President of Scouting and Player Development.

Oneri Fleita and Tim Wilken will report to Jason McLeod.

As was the case with the announcement Theo Epstein had been hired, the Cubs have agreed to forego further comment about the additions of Jed Hoyer and Jason McLeod until the completion of the World Series. The Cubs will introduce Jed Hoyer as the team’s new GM in a press conference after the Fall Classic.

A report from San Diego indicated the Padres are not likely to acquire the player to be named later until after the Rule 5 Draft on December 8 … but the two teams have not set an official date.

According to a report from ESPN Chicago, the compensation from the Cubs to the Padres “will come in the form of a lesser player than the one who will go to Boston as compensation for Epstein.

Stay Tuned …

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  • Darrenmcculloch

    This World Series needs to get over so the Cubs can officially show Mike Quade the door.  Make sure you give him a good kick too when he leaves. 

  • paulcatanese

    Why do I have the feeling that the naming of Hoyer and McLeod is anti-climatic?

    • Neil

      You shouldn’t but I understand why you do. Two solid hires by Epstein.

    • Neil

      Maybe this will help Paul …

      Epstein and Hoyer will meet this week in Chicago with Mike Quade to
      determine his future

      • paulcatanese

        That isnt exactly the way I meant it (anti-climatic) Neil, what I meant that Theo was such a great thing that anyone else is overshadowed or to that effect. I just look at Theo as running the whole show as he should. I,m sure that Hoyer and McLeod will do a great job.

        • Neil

          My bad Paul, misread … sorry.

      • RICK

        Theo is going to Florida to talk to Quade. Maybe he will fire him in person.

    • Tony_Hall


      Anti-climatic…yes.  Still an awesome way to build a Business Operations Department…yes.

      This has been the worse kept secret in baseball.  In today’s media age, MLB (Bud Selig) needs to loosen the rules or re-write them altogether of announcements during the World Series.  I have watched this World Series more than many of the past years, mainly because of all the buzz about the Cubs and other teams activities going on right now.

  • Demitri

    Finally we make a quick move instead of waiting! Go cubs!

  • Anthony

    Lot of non-players in this scenario, sometimes too many chiefs is a volatile formula? Theo used to fly out to see draft prospects personally with the Sox, now will he be content as overseer and button pusher?

    GM’s used to make decisions and got the OK from the checkbook guy(Owner), now, these decisions will run thru the overseer?

    Wilken was Scouting and Fleta Farm Director/player development, so Oneri now needs 3 layers of approval to assign prospects, advance/or/demote?

    This is a huge chain of command, and it appears these 2 hires will eventually force out Wilken and Oneri, unless Oneri chooses a “lesser” roll isolated to foreign affairs?

    My guess is Wilken will hang for the 2012 Draft while seeking a restoration of his old job elsewhere? In other words, you don’t need 5 guys for 3 jobs!

    Then again, Fleita and Wilken may have already requested permission to split, so whomever the fly on the wall was when Ricketts extended Oneri, kindly speak up

    This is starting to look like 3 young Turks, college kids trying to replicate what they did in Boston, an experiment, and if it backfires?

    Look thru the entire haze of change, step back, and tell me what you see!

    I hope some of the youngsters in the system have good agents when the computer program sends them to the release list, because it will happen. There will be many disagreements on prospect evaluations forthcoming, and this will be the start of a total purging of the old Cubs prospect bosses, right or wrong, time will tell.

    • Jason Penrod

      Bring on the purging, I trust Theo and his “Carmine” program, more than I ever trusted anyone on the previous Cubs staff.  2 World Series in 10 years speaks for itself.

      • Eric

        I agree Jason.  I trust Theo not just because of the WS, but the players are proof.  Lester, Bucholz, Pedroia, Youkilis, Elsbury.  Let me do what he has to do.  I believe he is definitely motivated to bring a WS here.  And per Ricketts press conference, I believe our owner will keep Theo accountable if things haven’t gotten better in 5 – 10 years.  We should start seeing some good signs in three years.  Be patient Cubs fans.

        • RICK

          How bout the bad signings, Crawford, Lackey don’t know who else.

          • Tony_Hall

            I believe that is why Theo speaks of FA, that way he does, and talks about the best spent money being in the draft.  FA is a very bad way to spend payroll dollars, except for the true difference makers.  Unfortunately, the next tier of players gets paid as if they are the difference makers, and that turns into very foolish dollars spent.  

            He also talks of an age range of 26-32 as the prime years, and when most players don’t become FA, until the end of this time frame, it should show everyone, that he doesn’t want to make FA, his place to fill out his roster, long term.

          • John_CC

            No one – NO one – is perfect. Give me a break. Rosenthal said that if 65% of the moves a GM makes play out then he is successful.

    • jfish1219

      Ok since you don’t seem to be happy with the Cubs new directions, what would you have rather seen? I just don’t get people sometime, It doesn’t matter what the cubs do they won’t be happy.

      • Anthony

        Unhappy is not the theme of the post, but it is a proven business model that too many chiefs, especially new ones will drive out the current ones, so the Fleita extension MUST have been pre-arranged with knowledge of an acceptable and agreeable new title/assignment as a multiple subordinate, foreign affairs, in charge of the teenage zoo even though he had a chance to join a new organization? That is curious, why he didn’t split?

        I guess I am asking why didn’t Oneri leave when recruited?

        Is the old guard(Wilken), now formerly in charge of the Draft OK in a lesser role, not in charge anymore? The Cubs added 2 more chiefs, more administrative payroll on 2 guys to filter statistical data into formulas most of us can write on Excel who don’t swing bats or throw darts.

        paralysis by analysis

        Taking away ultimate authority by adding these layers can make a man dig deep into his ego, self-worth, and professional capabilities when after you look thru these recent transactions, is an indictment, better yet, a non-endorsement of the job you have done, basically, your boss said you are not good enough, so we got you some help, except that help is now your superiors.

        I expect a Wilken resignation soon based on human nature. He was basically DEMOTED, as was Oneri. Watch!

        • Tony_Hall

          If they choose to leave, I am sure they will be free to leave, of course they are under contract, and just compensation should be received in return.

          Theo is setting up a baseball operations department, and departmentalizing different areas, instead of the same people doing everything.  Nobody was demoted, they just received a new boss, with an actual structure above them.

          It is simple though, buy into “The Cubs Way” or hit the highway.  Quade and his coaches will be hitting the road soon.

        • Henry

          I am more excited about about Hoyer and Mcleod!  they are the ones that built the farm system!  We are told the Cubs had a good draft this year but Wilken has reached in the past.  Hayden Simpson and Tyler Colvin.  The Cubs have been mismanged over the years for many different reasons why not put them in the hands of people that have been successful, are still young, and are not playing out the string like we did with Lou.  

          How many times do we want to bring up a hot prospect who is tearing it up in the minors only to find out he has a whole in his swing!  Why was it not corrected before he made it to the Majors.  If you cannot be excited by the new organization then you should get off the bus because you are only going drag the rest of us down.  

          Of course, we can’t blindly accept everything they do if we disagree with them but you have to admit their track record is pretty darn good.  I say let’s get this World Series over so they can get started!

        • John_CC

          Again, like with the compensation players, I have to say – So What?

          Yes, Wilken is good, Fleita is good. But come On man!  Why do you care about holding onto any of the Head of _____ / upper management guys in this system?  What have any of them brought us?  Starlin and Cashner, that is IT!

          On the contrary, what has Epstein and his crew brought to the MLB via draft and acquisition?  That’s rhetorical, I am not going to make a list.

          My point, the times have Finally changed at 1060 West!  Let’s embrace it, fer crissakes!  I thought that 100 years was long enough!

        • roguesqr09

          He’s building up the department. It’s already been stated that the Cubs have the least amount of execs of any other club. We haven’t won a world series, but others have….sounds to me like there should have been more execs in there to begin with. These aren’t new titles he’s creating, just new to the Cubs. The same titles and number of execs are already working at all the other clubs.

        • daverj

          I don’t see how Anthony’s post comes across as him being “not happy”.  It’s a well thought out and written post with some valid points.  Certainly some critical analysis of any new long term commitment for a baseball team is warranted.

          • Tony_Hall

            It comes across that he is highly skeptical, that having more highly intelligent baseball minds in the same organization is going to be productive.   Huh?!?

            I, for one, will take all the great baseball minds you can get to call Clark and Addison home.  I won’t be worried, one bit, that it will create problems, moreso, it should create constructive critique of the players and the entire system, to ultimately, create an environment, where players come into the team, that fit the mold of what the team is looking for, and when a player comes up from the minors to the majors, is a fit for what is needed on the 25 man roster.

            Will some players be traded or released because they don’t fit “The Cubs Way”…absolutely!  That is a good thing, not a bad thing, as he tried to make it sound.

          • daverj

            In many years of running businesses, I have seen the benefit of adding multiple great minds, but also, the downside with too many “chiefs”.  We don’t know what the case will be here … but I still think Anthony’s point is a valid one (whether it turns out in practice to be right or wrong).

          • Tony_Hall

            I have run business’s for over 20 years, and know what your are saying.


            Theo is in charge.  Everybody should be very clear on that.

            He didn’t hire Hoyer and Mcleod for the first time.  They know he is in charge.  They didn’t leave their own deal, to FOLLOW him, not knowing who was in charge.  This is the sign of a true leader.  They also have titles, that will keep them from a lateral move to a GM position down the road. 


            Fleita and Wilkens – They to, should know who they now report to, and will deal with Mcleod just as they did JH.  If they don’t like it they can and will leave.  

            Think of it this way, if you started a new business, and brought in other guys, who have worked for you before, they would follow you and know that you are in charge.  If someone you used to work for, started a new business, and you followed him, you would know he was in charge.  

          • Dorasaga

            Business 101, I must say. Hoyer and McLeod were close to Theo at the Redsox organization. To use the man’s own word, together, they were the “builders.” It’s time to try that sort again. I’m not worried a bit that the new Cubs Way will create confusion among these brilliant minds.

    • Tony_Hall

      It’s called having a Baseball Operations Department.  

    • Tony_Hall

      This sure doesn’t sound like someone who is going to be content as an overseer and button-pusher.

      Epstein said the GM would “evolve into helping to run the major league tea, day-to-day, and I’ll still ultimately run the baseball operations department. But it will ultimately free me up to more big picture (decisions), free me up to get in the trenches, doing the work in scouting and player development to build that foundation for sustained success that we talked about.”

      Full article –,0,5708866.story

    • Ry_wals14

      Obviously people like you can never be happy. You said it doesn’t take 5 people for 3 jobs, 100+ yrs of losing would disagree with you. In order for the Cubs to be successful they need consistency at every level. You ‘re probably going to be that guy that whines if immediate success is not achieved. However, I have more faith in this new management team whose resumes speak for themselves.

  • Spoda17

    We have quantum leaped into the future… wow, what a difference.  I agree Neil, we have totally upgraded.

    The CSN interview was awesome, thanks for the link.

  • John G

    Now I’m really rooting for the Rangers to win tonight so we can get on with it.

    Bye Bye Quade
    Hello Ryno


    • paulcatanese

      John, the Rangers will win. I have five taped Cub games that I watch over and over again and boy, am I glad Epstein is here.

      • studio179

        You are a true baseball fan or you don’t like yourself much. I take it these 5 games you watch over and over were from last year. That sounds painful! I hope Q makes better decisions the more you watch.  

        • paulcatanese

          No, he makes the same decisions every game. Mainly I watch the few games when the kids were allowed to play and how well they did when un there. I enjoy watching Camapana’s speed and the inside the park HR.

          • Texcubnut

            My taped games are games from distant past such as, ‘The Kerry Wood 20 strikeout game’ and ‘The Ryne Sandberg 2 homer game off Sutter’ and some playoff game ‘wins’ from 1984, 1989, 2003 and the play-in game from 1998 among afew other notable games from the past. Which reminds me’ I need to transfer them from VHS to DVD very soon.

          • paulcatanese

            Thats cool, did not have a recorder at the time but did watch all of those. The DVR has been invaluable. I tape all the games that are on WGN, so I can watch at my liesure unless of course my wife tells me the score. Also gets me through Pena’s at bats.

      • Texcubnut

        I do he same thing, Paul.  Glad I’m not alone.

        • paulcatanese

          I like to do it . Reinforces what my thought process was on the plays and the players, and certainly on the decisions of Qua.

    • Anonymous47701

      You Betcha! It’s The Rangers’ World and the Cardinals are just a bunch of squirrels trying to get a nut.

  • paulcatanese

    Roy Smalley passed away,he was 85 years old. I watched him play many times, along with Pafko, Peanuts Lowry, Bill Mickleson, Stan Hack, Eddie Miskis, Phil Caveretta, and Bob Scheffing.

    • John G

      “Miksis to Smalley to Addison Ave.”

      • paulcatanese

        Yeah John, that was the old saying, remember it well.

    • Gramps

      Along with Hank Sauer, Bob Ramazotti, Bill Serena and who could forget Frankie Baumhaultz (who had to play CF between Sauer and Kiner — talk about having to cover some ground?)…..boy, we had some really bad ball players back then. lol I remember the first game I saw in 1948 when Paul Minner pitched for the Cubs against Preacher Roe! Saw Smalley play many times. He was the Cubs shortstop until Ernie Banks took over. Rest in peace.

      • paulcatanese

        I remember it well, and glad you as I had that opportunity to see all of them. Yes they were bad but  we all loved them. Bill Serena, havent heard that name for a long time. Johnny Schmitz? Hank Borowy, stretching my mind to remember, but it was some good times.

      • Jim_Tinley_Park

        I remember Al Montreal(2b)

        • paulcatanese

          Wow, you and Gramps are pulling names up that I hadn’t thought about in years,and I thought I was a staunch Cub fan. Its great. Eddie Waitkus, and Chuck Conners (Rifleman), good stuff.

          • Tno13

            Handsome Ransom Jackson

      • John G

        Banks to Baker to Fondy

      • Dorasaga

        I really hope in the next Cubs Convention, the organization can address, pay respect to Smalley and Caveretta, who brought the Cubs their last World Series appearance.

  • Duas

    Hey everyone, long time follower of this great site

    Question: what exactly is the difference between what Epstein’s job will be versus what Hoyer’s job will be? It seems to me that Epstein has replaced Hendry, and yet Hoyer is the new ‘GM.’ Will Epstein pretty much act as the GM? 

    • Neil

      Duas, good to hear from you.

      Epstein will oversee all of the baseball operations … minors to majors. Hoyer is expected to mainly oversee the big league team.

      • Aaron

        Personally, I believe that Epstein will basically be in Hoyer’s ear the entire time, ultimately suggesting to him what to do. But it’s not like a “big brother” sort of situation, instead, more like a team effort. 

        One thing everyone has to keep in mind is that the Red Sox at one time had Byrnes, Hoyer, Cherington, and McLeod operating as a team under Epstein. If you think for a moment that Epstein was the only one making decisions, you’re out of your mind. They operated so closely together, playing golf inside their offices til the wee hours of the morning to spending countless hours combing through stats, and developing “Carmine” together. It was a total team effort. Epstein was the architect of all of that, and was instrumental bringing all of those guys together. He’ll be without Byrnes or Cherington, but Hoyer and McLeod are great options, and I’d be shocked if they aren’t able to make significant contributions to the Cubs turning the franchise around.

        • Texcubnut

          Aaron, there is also talk about bringing in other personell from that Red Sox team, including Demarlo Hale and one or two others from the business side of things. This may not be the “exact team” of Boston past, but pretty close. It might be better if you believe Theo will make a better team president than Luccino and Ricketts a better owner than Henry. (I do). I may be drinking the Cubbie Kool-Aid but in the future, this may be the ‘team model’ that other teams aspire to

  • Neil

    The Score is reporting that Randy Bush has stepped down, will leave the organization and will receive a one-year severance package. This is the only outlet reporting … So this is not confirmed.

    • Tony_Hall

      This wouldn’t be shocking, as he was in a job, that should have at least been considered a candidate to be the new GM, and wasn’t even considered.  It wouldn’t be surprising at all if the old regime, slowly, or even quickly, starts to leave.   Sounds like he has chosen, to hit the highway.  Hopefully he has room in his car for Q.

    • Anthony

      Wilken will probably split also

    • Neil

      The Sun Times is reporting Bush is staying … Stay tuned

      • Schwimmer

        To:  John CC

        In my view, it would be an absolutely “horrible” idea to hang onto QUADE for 1 more year.  Especially with the logic that some of the better “Managers” will then, be available.

        If you are THEO…you want to set up the new…CUB “Way,” now!  Immediately.  QUADE is the CUBS past.  He did nothing special to distinguish himself to be the CUB’s Manager for 1 more year.  He’s no villain.  But why would you hire the very best GM in baseball from BOSTON…and, yet retain a “mediocre” Manager from last year???  Makes no sense.

        There is no “louder” way to send a message to the CUBS and to its Fan Base — that this is the “new” CUBS…then, by hiring a new Manager.  I favor hiring RYAN SANDBERG.  But there are other choices that would work well.

        THEO is doing the polite and politic thing by meeting with QUADE.  In the end, he and his staff will pick a new field manager to manage the CUBS.

        Do you guys agree with me????

        Congratulations to RICKETTS for getting THEO.  This marks a new era for us CUB FANS! 

        • John_CC

          I agree with you, mostly. Don’t get me wrong – I was NOT endorsing Quadsie nor was I suggesting that he should last out his contract. 

          That is why I started out: Hypothetical.

          I was calling for his manager’s merit badge in May!  I can’t wait till he’s gone. It was just a “what if?”

          As for the Ryno hiring, this is where I disagree. I know I’ll catch flake here, but everyone really needs to stop expecting Ryno to be the next manager. There are many guys out there that are just as deserving for a shot or maybe are already in the league that these guys think is the right man for the new Cubs Way.  I think that hiring Ryno has too much PR pressure, which is exactly what should not, and I am confident will not, be based on. I think it is another reason why the hiring of Epstein and the title given him by Ricketts is an even better move.  Epstein will still catch heat if he doesn’t hire Ricketts, but not nearly as much as Hendry.  I like how honest and bottom line Epstein is about the state of the organization. He doesn’t “have to” hire anyone.  He just has to follow his plan.

    • studio179

      You had it right, nothing confirmed. The Score is now reporting the Cubs called them to say Bush will be employed with them for this year and he is not leaving. Hanley reported Bush left, but the Cubs say no. Wittenmeyer tweeting Bush staying. 

  • John_CC


    Epstein et al. decide that 2012 is a wasted season – at the MLB level. Aramis leaves, Pena is gone – 1B and 3B are platooned with rookies, Byrd gone, Z gone, etc. and they start the rebuilding. 

    So, why not just hold onto Quadsie through his contract (can you believe he got  a 2 year contract?!)?  OK, I know why, he is awful, but wait…with a whole crew of new bosses above him, basically telling him exactly who they want to see play, and with no expectations of a winning season, really – why not be patient and find the best new manager?  Someone who will grow with the new club.

    • studio179

      With all due respect, no. You had a good post above about embracing change. You come back with wanting to keep Quade around for another year? With excitement of a new direction, announcing Q-Ball coming back is not a move in the right direction and a PR downer. 

    • Roland

      It depends on who they want for the new manager.  If it is Ryno for example, I would rather have him get some experience at the major league level. 

    • J Daniel

      Why not hold on to him?  He has to go – the “Cubs Way” has to be implemented!  He will be managing for himself and play the wrong guys – like this year.  They need to have a manager in place that knows he will be here for awhile and will be part of the team that wins it.  A manager that will see the long term plan and will not be aftraid to implement the long term plan.  Qua knows he would not be in the long term plan.

      That is why you do not keep him.

    • roguesqr09

      “Someone who will grow with the new club.” – why wait a year to start someone growing with the club when they can do it now. I’ve see the article about waiting for Maddon or Bochy or Black…….there’s no guarantee either of them will be available. I doubt the giants are going to let Bochy go after 2010. The Padres and Black were almost in it in 2011 so if they get closer in 2012, he won’t be available. I highly doubt Friedman leaves Tampa and if he ain’t going, I don’t see Maddon going either.

    • paulcatanese

      John, I agree with almost everything you post and value your’e opinion, but just can’t bring myself to agree on this one. Guess its because of a year and a half watching this “person” try to run something he know nothing about. If he does remain I will be very disappointed.

      • John_CC

        Well, that got a lot of quick responses…it was simply a hypothetical question for which I really wanted to hear reasons “why not”.  I got them!

        I have NEVER endorsed Q-ball for manager. I will be very glad when he is cut.

        See above for more detailed response to Schwimmer.

        • paulcatanese

          John it sure did, and I remember that you had not endorsed him as I. Lost my head with the response. But then anytime Qua’s name comes up I do that. Did not mean to offend you in any way.

          • John_CC

            No offense, Paul!  Just trying to clear my good name!!

  • paulcatanese

    Qua did what he thought was right, but that dosent make what he did the RIGHT thing to do. Ruining a pitching staff, failure to bring along young players and lineups that made no sense at all. His insistance to give veterans every opportunity to suceed and young players every chance to fail.

    No, having patience with him in 2012 , and treating it as a “lost” year is not productive at all. Just as a lot of great moves are being made by the Cubs
    this would be one that would be totally negative. Qua must.must go, and the sooner the better, as I dont think above all he does not grasp the new direction that Theo will want to go. The “lost year” would also turn into a “wasted” year with him at the helm. I dont think if Theo’s policy was put into black and white and capitol letters and hung in the dugout that Qua would get it. Bye!

  • Aaron

    Some things to ponder…

    We assume the player to go to the Red Sox will be a Top Prospect. Who is considered an “eligible” Top Prospect? You can’t include 2011 draftees, as they’re not available in trade until the following year. We also are aware of the fact that supposedly that player is not on the current roster either. We’ve also been told that Cashner, Szczur, McNutt, and Brett Jackson are going nowhere.

    That means the following players will likely be on that list:

    Jay Jackson
    M. Gonzalez
    W. Castillo

    I’d be okay with letting go of just about everyone on that list, except for Vitters, Flaherty, Kurcz, and Dolis (the latter two, because of their high velocity, high impact arms).

    But then, what complicates this matter even more, is the PTBNL in the Hoyer/McLeod acquisition from the Padres. They are supposedly waiting until after the Rule 5, which means that the player they will get will be eligible for Rule 5 inclusion.

    Here’s a complete list of those players:
    Abner Abreu, OF

    Jeffry Antigua, LHP

    Adrian Aviles, OF-LHP

    Jeffrey Beliveau, LHP

    Dan Berlind, RHP

    Austin Bibens-Dirkx, RHP

    Smaily Borges, OF

    Michael Brenly, C

    Justin Bristow, RHP

    Michael Burgess, OF

    Kyler Burke, LHP (ex-OF)

    David Cales, RHP


    Hung-Wen Chen, RHP

    Robert Coello, RHP

    Manolin DeLeon, RHP

    Carlos Figueroa, INF

    Eduardo Figueroa, RHP

    Ryan Flaherty, IF-OF

    Luis Flores, C (RESTRICTED LIST)

    Marwin Gonzalez, IF-OF

    Miguel Gonzalez, C

    Yohan Gonzalez, RHP

    Gian Guzman, IF-RHP

    Marcus Hatley, RHP

    Jay Jackson, RHP

    Junior Lake, SS

    Blake Lalli, 1B-C

    Jordan Latham, RHP

    David Macias, IF-OF

    Oswaldo Martinez, RHP

    Craig Muschko, RHP

    Jon Nagel, RHP

    Jake Opitz, INF

    Blake Parker, RHP

    Nelson Perez, OF

    Ramon Reyes, RHP

    Dae-Eun Rhee, RHP

    Rebel Ridling, 1B

    Carlos Romero, C

    Nate Samson, INF

    Brian Schlitter, RHP

    Ryan Searle, RHP

    Marquez Smith, 3B

    Matt Spencer, LHP (ex-OF)

    Larry Suarez, RHP

    Matt Szczur, OF

    Jose Tineo, RHP

    Josh Vitters, 3B

    Ty Wright, OF

    Beliveau, Flaherty, M. Gonzalez, Lake, Szczur, and Vitters are virtual locks for protection.

    That means Antigua, Burke (whom they’d be re-acquiring as a pitcher), Jay Jackson, Rhee, Ridling, Suarez, and Wright are the most likely targets for the Padres.

    If I’m the Cubs, I’m thinking long and hard about protecting Antigua, Burke (who really has opened eyes as a pitcher), Ridling, and Suarez (who I have always been VERY high on despite his control issues).

    It’s also important to keep in mind that any of these players could also be included in the Red Sox list.

    Losing two top prospects will hurt, especially considering the quality of prospects the Rays took in last year for Garza.

    And the sad thing is, other than Hoilman, there really wasn’t a single draft pick from last year that really stood out in terms of production. Some like Easterling rose through the ranks, but nobody put up solid numbers like Hoilman did, so my biggest fear is that if the Cubs give up top talent…who is going to replace them? Unless a lot of players have career years next year in the minors, the system is going to suffer, and part of Epstein’s philosophy is that the minor league teams are competitive, which fosters a winning environment.

    Anyway, I’m most afraid of losing a guy like Vitters


    • daverj

      Great post.  I agree on Vitters.  I would expect that the PTBNL in the Padres deal is a more mid-level prospect than a top one.  There are many players on your second list that wouldn’t be a big loss.

    • Anthony

      I disagree on Hoilman being the only productive one from the 2011 Class simply on the basis of “lack of sample/at bats”.

      Hoilman is a legit power guy, but he remained in Boise because of R. Jones who had a great season, so we didn’t get to see Hoilman against the pitching rich MWL, but you cannot deny the HR total, very impressive, but at 6’4 and 240plus, it is expected.

      Some 2011 never really got it going, some started slow and progressed quickly and performed better the back half of the short-season in both Boise and Peoria, while others ran out of gas.

      The 2011 class position guys need 400 plus plate appearances to get a better read. I like what DeVoss did at the plate, he needs to learn defense more than anything, same with Taiwan, and I like that Klafczynski, solid on defense and fundamentals hit .325 against MWL pitching in August after a slow start.

      I expect Hoilman to start at no less than Peoria and R. Jones needs to start at Daytona/TENN to see if he can follow up his great 2011 campaign. There are many 1B sluggers in the system, maybe too many, and several CF candidates, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the Cubs are looking to sway compensation to BOS and SD from these 2 positions, plus pitching is exposed also.


      Golden(Green Monster)
      PC Chen

      to name a few

      • Aaron

        Sorry….I forgot about DeVoss, and shouldn’t have….but really nobody else stood out. Easterling started well, then tapered off, and Klafczynski (who was actually my “diamond in the rough” prediction in the draft) didn’t stand out at all, despite his .325 avg in August, with an overall line of .236/.296/.293 and 2 hr, 24 RBI in 253 plate appearances

        I’d really hate to lose Golden (because of his raw potential), Chen, and Ridling, but someone has to go….and I guess the way everyone needs to look at this is the fact that 3 players tops will be traded (2 likely to Boston and 1 to SD). As long as only 1 is a top prospect, the Cubs should be in good shape.

        And for those in the Red Sox organization, and their fans, they should SIGNIFICANTLY reduce their expectations, because their excuse is often times pointing at what the Marlins gave up for Guillen without realizing 2 things:
        1) There was significant tampering on the Marlins part that could’ve ended up with a higher level prospect going to the White Sox if it wasn’t resolved, and…

        2) The prospects they sent were pretty bad, and Ozzie was a World Series winning manager (which the Red Sox are going to point to Epstein’s value with 2 championships). The SS the White Sox received, Ozzie Martinez, has a career line of: .269/.331/.352 in the minors and .258/.300/.348 While he’s just 23 years old, he offers very little offensively or defensively for that matter to be considered a top prospect. As for the pitcher they gave up, Jhan Marinez, he’s 22 years old, has a 4.12 ERA in the minors in 223 IP with 180 hits, 14 hr allowed, 146 walks, and 249 K’s with a 1.462 WHIP. In 4 games at the MLB level, he had a 6.75 ERA in 2 2/3 IP, 3 hits, 1 hr allowed, 3 walks, 3 K’s, and a 2.250 WHIP.

        The most pathetic thing of all for the White Sox, is they actually gave up the better overall prospect in sending Ricardo Andres to the Marlins, who is just 20 years old, and appeared in 12 games in rookie ball, his first taste of the States, and while he had a 6.32 ERA in 15 2/3 IP, 17 hits, 4 hr allowed, 11 walks, 8 K’s, and a 1.787 WHIP, he’s still young, and an imposing presence on the mound at 6’4″, and reportedly hits mid 90’s.

        While Martinez and Marinez ranked 4 and 5 in the preseason rankings of Marlins Top Prospects, they received 7 and 10 rankings from Sickels with his review in August, with both receiving C+ ratings.

        Therefore, if you factor in the rankings and the pending tampering charges the Marlins would’ve had to deal with, here would be a comparable list of what the Cubs could give up according to Sickels rankings:

        Robinson Lopez
        Austin Reed
        Alberto Cabrera
        Marquez Smith
        DJ LeMahieu
        Rafael Dolis
        Brett Wallach
        Brooks Raley
        Su-Min Jung
        Austin Kirk
        Jin-Young Kim

        The Red Sox could pick two players from that list (though if I were the Cubs, I’d make LeMahieu and Dolis off limits in that grouping), and the Cubs would be entitled to a player like Lars Anderson in return.

        Even when the Rays dealt Randy Winn for Piniella and Antonio Perez, it was more like the Cubs dealing Tyler Colvin straight up for Epstein.

        I just don’t understand their arrogance. First of all, they wanted a scapegoat, and forced Francona to basically resign, but made it look like it was his idea, then Lucchino has a bizarre relationship with Epstein that makes it seem like Epstein was on the outs with him to begin with, then Epstein makes his intentions clear that he was leaving at the end of 2012 regardless, and the Red Sox were poised to announce Cherington as GM, then all of a sudden, they get this idea that they’re entitled to a huge haul of prospects for Epstein. And that is NOT even taking into consideration that with Piniella and Guillen, those were LATERAL moves….Epstein is essentially becoming Lucchino in terms of title and responsibility, which is why the hiring of Hoyer and McLeod were very strategic, because it will re-enforce the notion that it is NOT a lateral move for Epstein, and when Selig takes a look at it, he might even say the Red Sox are entitled to NOTHING, which would serve them right for asking for a ridiculous haul when they started with Garza, then Castro, then Cashner, then the rest of the top prospects, etc.

        If the Red Sox were realistic about their compensation, the Cubs very well might’ve let them have a McNutt, but when they were that arrogant to ask for Garza and Castro, I think it really lit a fire under Cubs management/ownership to stand their ground.

        • Anthony

          I am still going to give the benefit of the doubt to all the 2011 college players whether they did great, good, average, or struggled at times mainly because they traveled, attended classes, hit with metal bats, etc.

          How the Red Sox(Cubs) suits handle them is another story because when you think about it, each of our selections were not chosen by Theo(or SD) when they were available, so it will become interesting because they are now all effectively quasi-traded into their scouting system philosophies and statistical criteria methods.

          The 2011 Draft has been called one of the deepest and most talented in a long time. Players in later rounds fell because of it and could have been higher in other years so that should have a positive effect in seasons to come.

    • cubs1967

      who then should of been the GM if trading any of these suspects is a bad idea.  ya can’t have team Theo for free……… what do you suggest??

      and the worrying about the back-up C, 2 4th OFs, a 9th SP on the rays and a AA shortstop for Garza is nuts………..but these 5 minor leaguers, 3 of which did play in the majors and performed miserably are taking on status of DeRosa as far as what they are; but really aren’t.

      i’m missing your theory in this post…………what’s better longterm for the Cubs……..any of these suspects or a proven modern day analytical team Theo??

      i’ll take Theo & co.

      • Skeldor

        You could have had team Theo for free if they had hired the San Diego guys and waited a year for him.  I’d rather not get rid of Vitters b/c who else do they have in the system.  Maybe we can see if Kevin Orie is in game shape

    • Spoda17

      Aaron, love the post bro, but wow, glad I have a big monitor… lol

  • paulcatanese

    Ok, its Thursday,just today and tommorow and Theo will meet with Qua. I am impatient and cneck the blog every ten minutes for news. All of this cannot happen quick enough for me. Very anxious to find out what will happen to Aram,Z, Byrd, Dempster and the rest that are on the bubble. Lets go Theo,just hang the pink slips on the bulliten board and get them out of there.
    I’m just like a kid with a new toy, and know it will get done, confident that it will.

  • paulcatanese

     Cant remember the last time I could post “likes” to every comment on the page.
    Happy,happy days are here again.

    • studio179

      You bet. These last few days put a spring to the step and smile on the face. Having a plan and new direction does not promise a championship, but it sure does beat the alternative. The next few days should do the same…like a kid in a candy store.  

  • Neil

    Junior Lake stole 2 more bases today. Lake’s 13 SB matches the 2009 and 2010 AFL season-highs set by Pirates Chase D’Arnaud and Twins Ben Revere.

  • Neil

    According to Baseball America, Jonathan Mota (SS) and James Adduci (OF) re-signed minor league contracts to remain in Cubs organization

  • Neil

    Cubs in AFL (10/27): Junior Lake (3B): 1-for-5, 2 SB; Josh Vitters (RF): 0-for-5

  • Jay from sandwich

    The Question of the Day is:
    Will you still be happy to have THEO if he desides to keep Qua as the Cubs MLB  Manager? Personal I would have concerns. Befause I still beleive the Qua pushed the explosive Z-Man into doing something by having him start another inning after he had given up 8 runs and 5 homers in four innings.

    • John_CC

      Yes. His days are numbered, either way. The satisfaction of the firing would just be delayed.

  • Aaron

    Paul, and others with questions about the ARAM situation, among other things….

    It is VERY important to note that there are NO good free agent options for 3B right now. It is also VERY important to note that despite what many of us thought after the season was over, it now looks like if the Cubs offer arbitration to ARAM, they will NOT be entitled to draft picks, according to MLBTR. According to their posting today with 3B options, there is not a single option on the market that would land their current team draft picks if they were offered arbitration.

    So what does this mean?

    Unless Theo believes he can land a David Wright, Evan Longoria, or even Yonder Alonso on the trade market without giving up the whole system, he almost has to resign ARAM, even though he doesn’t fit his desires on offense (ie.-players that take pitches, etc.).

    The whole point of letting ARAM walk would be to get the draft pick compensation, then rebuild from within, or make a short-term commitment to someone like DeRosa for next season. But now, without the compensation, it makes almost no sense to let a guy that hit 20+bombs, 90+RBI, .300+avg, .350+OBP walk away for nothing.

    • JimBo_C

      Point is well taken about there isn’t much available on the free agent market at 3B. However if we consider Theo’s press conference thoughts
      – Aramis is no longer in his prime years (26 to 31)
      – He would likely have to paid based on his past accomplishments and not on future performance (wouldnt doubt if he starts with a 3-year $45 million dollar request)
      – He is less than a defensive gem on a defensively challenged team (as BB recently pointed out)
      – Veterans should provide leadership; helping establish an enviroment of accountability and excellence (we as fans dont see these attributes).

      If I am reading Theo right, I see him cutting bait on Ramirez, finding a more economical alternative and using the remaining money elsewhere (like starting pitching)

      • Aaron

        that’s why I said he doesn’t fit Epstein’s desires, but given no draft pick compensation like he received when he let Bay walk, he gets NOTHING for letting ARAM walk, and that is a problem, in my opinion.

        That would almost certainly lead Epstein to deal away all of his decent assets like Barney, Soto, Marmol, etc. to get a good 3B.

        Again, I think the Cubs would be best served by dealing Marmol for someone like a Dominic Brown for the OF, then trading Soto for pitching (ie.-possibly Jonathan Sanchez so Posey can move to 1B, or the Twins for Liriano so Mauer can move to 1B or DH), and then deal Barney for prospects. That might be the best way to go right now. It’d be even better if they could unload Zambrano to the Marlins for Morrison, and insert him either in RF or LF (if Soriano is dealt), and put LaHair at 1B, or vice-versa, then use the money they save on salary and go after starting pitching like Edwin Jackson, Buehrle, and Oswalt, plus the closers I’ve mentioned like KROD, Papelbon, etc.

        • JimBo_C

          They might opt to defer on getting a “good” 3B and instead pursue a good fielding stop gap veteran “leadership type” 3B. This could buy time for Vitters, for a Castro position change or for a look at the free agent market in 2013.

          I agree with you wholeheartedly on moving Soto; mediocre receiver with a very average throwing arm; also, I have never seen a RH hitter finish so many swings with only his right hand on the bat. If you cant get anything good for him then I would non-tender him rather than pay him $5 million in arbitration. If the choice is Soto at $5 million or Clevenger/Castillo at $400K … I choose the rookies any day.

    • paulcatanese

      Aaron, I hate it when your’e right all the time.:)

    • texcubnut

      Aaron, I agree.The options are limited and even more so if Josh Vitters is part of the compensation. The Cubs should try to re-sign Aram for 1 year only and see what our options are after next year.

    • J Daniel

      He can also be an asset down the line.  Bet there is not a no trade clause.

  • Aaron

    I am beginning to wonder if Theo realizes the HUGE market for closers this offseason with Bell, KROD, Madson, Lidge (after option declined), Broxton, Capps, Soriano (who will likely have his $11 million option declined), and Nathan, and determine that it might be in his best interest to deal Marmol while he still has some value to a team like the Phillies, who now might have 2 holes in their pen if they lose both Madson and Lidge.

    Could he possibly swing a deal with Marmol going to the Phillies for Dominic Brown, who doesn’t seem to be getting a fair opportunity at the MLB level with the Phillies. Could he possibly work his magic and get not only Brown, but another prospect from them too?

    This is the first time I’ve been this excited in the offseason as a Cubs fan, because I realize we finally have a leader that is willing to make some controversial moves like that.

    In all honesty, the Cubs could elect not to go with any of the above closers, and insert Marshall and Wood in that role, depending on circumstances. Plus, they’d also have Carpenter, Dolis (provided he and Carpenter aren’t in the Epstein deal), Cashner, and Samardzija to choose from as well, and I can guarantee you that those guys would have about the same success as Marmol in the closer’s role (remember, Marmol had 10 blown saves, and was extremely erratic in his actual saves anyhow).

    Like I’ve said before, dealing guys with value like Soto, Barney, Marmol, etc. will help create a winner for 2012. If they have some strategic acquisitions I’ve already mentioned, then add some young guys like Brown to that list, they’ll be well on their way to winning next year.

    • J Daniel

      I am sure he realizes the market!

      • Aaron

        I guess I should’ve said “I hope Theo makes a move because the market is strong for quality closers” instead of “hope he realizes”….my bad

    • Dorasaga

      On the other hand, why wouldn’t the Phillies simply sign Capps or Soriano? Marmol might not rise until the July deadline, when contenders have injuries and need quick fix on their bullpen. And I can’t believe I just said that.

  • Aaron

    I just wanted to share a few stat lines with everyone:

    2.94 ERA, 64 IP, 50 hits, 10 walks, 87 K’s, 0.933 WHIP $12 million

    2.37 ERA, 60 IP, 54 hits, 16 walks, 62 K’s, 1.154 WHIP $4.8 million

    2.44 ERA, 62 IP, 51 hits, 21 walks, 51 K’s, 1.149 WHIP $7.5 million

    2.64 ERA, 71 IP, 67 hits, 26 walks, 79 K’s, 1.298 WHIP $12.16 million

    4.01 ERA, 74 IP, 54 hits, 48 walks, 99 K’s, 1.378 WHIP $7 million (next yr)

    In order, it’s: Papelbon, Madson, Bell, KROD, and Marmol.

    For $5 million more, I’d take Papelbon in a friggin’ HEARTBEAT (because if we still have Marmol next year, I won’t have one with his myocardial infarction inducing outings).

    If the Cubs can convince Wood to come back on a reasonable salary, they could also offer Lidge, Broxton, or Capps a sort of “make good” contractin their favor if they don’t want to spend big.

  • Anthony

    While watching Pujols having a bad date with the baseball gods, and reading junk from the other websites there seems to be a lack of respect from fans to the game.

    Seems many folk feel 3 suits are a guarantee of a WS Title.

    How silly

  • paulcatanese

    What can I say about this World Series? No one wants it.

    • Tony_Hall

      That may have been the best WS game!  Wow!