Wells, That’s That … The Win-Streak Comes to an End – Cubs 7 Reds 8

Game One Hundred Fifteen – Cubs 7 Reds 8
WP – Nick Masset (2-5, BS 5) LP – Sean Marshall (5-5, BS 4) Save – Francisco Cordero (20)

The Chicago Cubs seven-game winning streak came to a grinding halt on Sunday afternoon. After being down 6-2 as late as the fifth inning, the Cubs battled back and took a 7-6 lead in the bottom of the seventh. But a misplayed ball in center by Marlon Byrd, coupled with a poor outing by Sean Marshall allowed the Reds to scored a pair in the top of the eighth … and the Cubs could not manage another comeback against the Reds’ bullpen.

Starlin Castro (2-for-5 with a home run and two runs scored) continued his hot streak at the plate and extended his hitting streak to eight games … as well as his run scoring streak. Castro has scored at least one run in the last nine game. Castro led off the third with his fifth big fly of the season … and second in five games. Castro’s blast traveled an estimated at 425-feet.

Blake DeWitt (2-for-3 with a home run, a walk and two RBI) lined his fourth homer of the season into the right field bleachers in sixth that started the comeback and cut the Reds’ lead to 6-4.

Marlon Byrd had a huge day at the plate (3-for-3 with two doubles, a run scored, a walk and two RBI) but his misplayed ball in the eighth opened the door … and the Reds scored two runs off Sean Marshall.

The Cubs took a brief lead after scoring three runs in the bottom of the seventh. Tony Campana (1-for-5 with a RBI) drove in a run with a single to right and kept the inning alive with a textbook takeout slide at second base. Aramis Ramirez hit a tailor made double play ball to Todd Frazier at third. Frazier threw to second but Campana took out Paul Janish and the Reds could not turn two. Marlon Byrd tied the game with a ground rule double to the left field corner. The Cubs scored the go ahead run on a wild pitch by Nick Masset.

Both teams scored a run on misplayed balls in shallow centerfield and on wild pitches.

Randy Wells did not allow any first inning runs for only the second time this season (14 starts) but it was three of the other six innings on Sunday that was not that good. Wells allowed runs in three of the seven innings he completed and served up three home runs.

The Reds were extremely aggressive against Wells. There was a lot of first pitch hacking and two of the three longballs hit off Wells came on the first pitch of the at bat. In 14 starts this season, Wells has served up 15 home runs in 77.1 innings.

Randy Wells retired the last eight batters he faced and ended up allowing six runs, all earned, on eight hits (three home runs) with a walk, a wild pitch and three strikeouts. Wells threw 91 pitches, 56 for strikes.

Sean Marshall suffered his fourth blown save of the year and his fifth loss after giving up two runs on three hits with a walk and a strikeout in the eighth (a third of an inning).

The big difference on Sunday afternoon was the Reds defense. Dave Sappelt made his big league debut and took away a couple of hits from Geovany Soto and Starlin Castro. Sappelt made a very smart play by not reaching into the ivy on what ended up as a ground rule double for Marlon Byrd in the seventh.

The Cubs ended a long stretch of games against the National League Central on Sunday. Q’s squad finished with a 10-6 record in 16 games against the Astros (3-0), Brewers (0-3), Cardinals (1-2), Pirates (4-0) and Reds (2-1).

With Sunday’s loss (4-14 on Sundays in 2011), the Cubs slipped back to 49-66 on the season … 17 games under .500.

Randy Wells started the game on a very positive note. The Reds came out swinging and Wells sat down the Reds in order in the first on just seven pitches (four for strikes).

The Cubs put together nice at bats against Bronson Arroyo in the home half of the first … but went in order.

Wells retired Jay Bruce (first pitch pop out to left) and Todd Frazier (flyout to right) quickly to start the second. Drew Stubbs went with Wells’ first pitch and hit into the bleachers in right center … 1-0 Reds.

Ryan Hanigan followed Stubbs’ opposite field homer with a hard single to left on the first pitch. Wells lost command at that point and walked Paul Janish on four pitches. Arroyo put together the Reds best at bat over the first two innings. Arroyo fouled out to Carlos Pena (near homeplate) on a 3-2 pitch to end the inning.

After a seven-pitch first inning, it took Wells 18 to get through the second (25 total, 13 for strikes).

Marlon Byrd singled to left with one out in the second. Blake DeWitt then blooped a single into center on a 3-2 pitch. Soto popped out to right but Tyler Colvin worked a walk to load the bases with two outs. Randy Wells struck out swinging to end the inning.

The Reds did nothing against Wells in the third (10 pitches, seven for strikes).

Starlin Castro led off the third with a monster shot over the centerfield wall. Castro hit a 1-1 offering from Arroyo about 425-feet and tied the game at one … homer number five on the season and second in five games.

Tony Campana grounded out to short on a bang-bang play at first. Ramirez hit a towering fly into left that stayed in the park. The Reds left fielder, Dave Sappelt, caught the ball with his back very close to the Under Armour door in left center.

Carlos Pena put together a very good at bat that resulted in a two-out walk. Marlon Byrd then popped a 2-2 pitch into left center. Drew Stubbs lost the routine fly in the sun. Pena scored all the way from first on what was ruled a double for Marlon Byrd. DeWitt grounded out to first to end the inning.

Randy Wells started falling apart in the fourth gave those two runs right back … and then some.

Jay Bruce led off and smoked a 2-0 pitch into left center. Todd Frazier jumped on Wells’ first pitch and the ball left the park in a hurry … just like that the Cubs were down 3-2.

Drew Stubbs followed with a hard single into left (0-1 pitch). Stubbs took off for second on a 1-0 offering to Hanigan … and made it easily. Hanigan ended up grounding out to Castro on a ball ticketed for center. Castro made an excellent play to get to the ball and throw out Hanigan. Stubbs advanced to third on the play.

Wells uncorked a wild pitch on the first offering to Paul Janish … Stubbs scored easily, 4-2 Reds. Janish grounded out to short and Arroyo flied out to deep left on a 3-1 pitch to end the inning … after four, Wells’ pitch count stood at 55, 31 for strikes.

The Cubs did nothing against Arroyo in the fourth … thanks to two excellent defensive plays, one by Sappelt in left and the other by Janish at second.

The Reds appeared to put the game way in the fifth. Dave Sappelt singled to left to start the inning … his first big league hit. Edgar Renteria got just enough of a 1-0 offering to put the ball in the basket … the third homer of the day for the Reds gave them a commanding 6-2 lead.

Joey Votto singled to left, the Reds’ eighth hit of the game. After Jay Bruce struck out swinging, Frazier hit into a 6-4-3 double play to end the inning. Wells’ pitch count was a respectable 71 (43 for strikes) but he was anything but effective at that point.

Arroyo retired the Cubs in order, quickly, in the fifth … and the Reds did nothing against Wells in the top of the sixth.

Marlon Byrd worked a one-out walk in the sixth and came around to score on Blake DeWitt’s fourth dinger of the season … 6-4 Reds. Arroyo struck out Soto and retired Colvin on a groundout to second to end the inning.

Randy Wells ended his afternoon by retiring the Reds in order in the seventh.

Reed Johnson hit for Wells to start the seventh. Logan Ondrusek replaced Arroyo and plunked Johnson with his first pitch.

Starlin Castro blooped a 0-1 pitch into right. Johnson advanced to third and scored on Tony Campana’s single to right … 6-5 Reds.

With runners on first and second with no outs, Aramis Ramirez hit a chopper to third. Frazier backed up, fielded the ball and threw to second. Tony Campana made a hard, legal slide into second, and took out Paul Janish. Ramirez was safe at first and Campana jogged off the field to a standing ovation.

Dusty Baker went to his pen and brought in lefty Bill Bray to face Carlos Pena.

Pena looked at strike three on a 2-2 pitch and Dusty went back to his pen. Nick Masset came into face Byrd with runners on first and third with two outs.

Marlon Byrd ripped a 3-1 pitch down the left field line. Castro scored and tied the game at six but the ball stuck in the vines. The rookie left fielder, Dave Sappelt, threw up his hands and Ramirez had to go back to third on the ground rule double.

Blake DeWitt was intentionally walked to load the bases with two outs.

Nick Masset uncorked a wild pitch on the first offering to Geovany Soto. Ramirez scampered in and scored the go ahead run. Soto struck out swinging to end the inning.

After being down 6-2 in the fifth, the Cubs took a 7-6 lead into the eighth … but it did not last long.

Joey Votto received a gift double when he blooped a 1-0 pitch into shallow center. Marlon Byrd overran the ball and slipped when he tried to go back and catch it. Sean Marshall struck out Jay Bruce then hung a curve on a 2-2 pitch to Todd Frazier. The Reds’ third baseman reached out and pulled the ball into the left field corner. Votto scored and tied the game at seven.

Marshall walked Drew Stubbs to put runners on first and second with one out. Ryan Hanigan ripped a 2-2 pitch into right. Frazier rounded third and slid in safe with the go ahead run … and the Reds took the lead 8-7.

Jeff Samardzija replaced Marshall and walked Paul Janish to load the bases (3-2 pitch). Yonder Alonso hit for Masset and grounded into a 5-2-3 double play to end the inning.

The Cubs did nothing against Aroldis Chapman in the eighth … the Reds’ reliever struck out the side (Baker, Barney and Castro).

Samardzija stayed in and pitched the ninth. Samardzija struck out the side (Sappelt, Renteria and Votto) to keep it a one-run game.

The Cubs did nothing against Francisco Cordero in the ninth … game and winning streak over.

To the Cubs’ credit, they never quit playing on Sunday. But it was two of the Cubs biggest problems that cost them another ballgame … starting pitching and defense.

Box Score from Yahoo Sports

The Cubs open a three-game series (all night games) on Monday against the Washington Nationals. Matt Garza against Chien-Ming Wang in game one.

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  • Brp921

    I thought Byrd should have backed off the pop-up, especially since he was playing so deep. That got their inning going, but I wish Marshall could reach back and be toupher in spots like that. I know he has a good era, but without an overpowering fastball he has trouble in those situations. I’d like to see him back in a starters roll.

    • paulcatanese

      Yes,he should have. He slipped though because Castro was right there, in his way and Byrd would have destroyed him where he was. The old rule with the center fielder having the right of way here would not have worked unless Castro moved to the side.

      • Brp921

        It looked to me like he over ran the ball and slipped while trying to stop, and the ball dropped behind him. I have the game on DVR, but I haven’t watched it again so I could be wrong.

        • paulcatanese

          You may be right as I dont have re-play on the computer. At any rate a pretty bad collision was averted.

  • diehardcubfan

    As with everything in life all good things must come to an end and that is what happened to the Cubs winning streak today.  With a heavy dose of Cardinals, Braves, Brewers and Giants the remainder of the month will tell us if this winning streak was a mirage or the team has at least become competitive.  I am more thinking a mirage and this team will be brought back to reality.

    As for Wells, it is unfortunate that he got pounded today.  He was starting to show signs that he was finding out how to pitch again as over the past month he had a respectable 4.13 ERA, a 2-1 record and 24 innings pitched in 4 starts which for a 4 or 5 number starter is acceptable.

    Hope this was just a bump on the road but if he reverts back to beginning of the year form then I do not think he will be back next year. 

    • Brp921

      Even today he just had the two bad innings where he got some balls up. I just can’t help thinking that if someone could teach him to harness his control he could be a pretty good pitcher. He’s so close but just can’t get over the hump.

  • http://chicagocubsonline.com/ Neil

    Brett Jackson was 2-for-3 with
    two solo home runs and a walk in Iowa’s 6-1 win over Sacramento on
    Sunday afternoon.

    • cubs1967

      time for the kid to be brought up………..the paper has been wondering if he would be brought up in Sept??????????………..huh, no way he can be the CF in 2012 and not bring him up……….games don;t count/no pressure/perfect way for him to get a feel for the majors.

      time to tell bryd and sori…………watch out for the splinters!

    • cubtex

      He is starting to taste that MLB callup.

  • Tom U

    Congratulations to Peoria on their 50th win, defeating Cedar Rapids 8-6.

  • paulcatanese

    OK Guys, is Castro starting to display too much power for SS? Now can we move him to Third Base?

    • paulcatanese

      Really like Castro’s approach at the plate. He is now looking up the middle and pulling the inside pitch to left and the outside pitch to right. The home run he hit today was a good indication of what he is doing with the bat. HR to dead away center. He is getting better and better every day.

      • Ken Hubbs

        Paul,
             Would you move Starlin to 3rd in the order at some point?  Does it make sense to wait till ST?  Also, just since your comment begs the question, does that mean that Barney would/could/should move to short?
        While I’m asking, though it may be a longer shot, what about Campana’s possible future?  It would be fun to see if, with regular AB’s, what kind of base stealing threat could he be.  I know that some consider stolen bases to be overrated, but if the success percentage is high, it would add a dimension to the offense.  I’m asking what you and the other bloggers think, not what people think that the ‘Braintrust’ will do.  Love your posts.

        • paulcatanese

          Yes, I would like him to be in the three spot when he is comfortable with what he is achieving right now. He is ,in my opinion getting to that point soon, Then again some guys really like the spot they are in, and he is doing damage their.

          Barney could move over to short tommorow and do the job,LeMahiue over to second and Castro to third. Only when Aram is gone though.

          Campana is my favorite and is quickly becoming a fan  favorite as well. The speed he brings is great. His hitting seems to improve as he is given more time in the lineup. He does the same thing that Byrd does only on a smaller scale. If hustle were the only criteria he would be in the lineup every day.
          Unfortunatly its not the case, as he needs to add power at least in the gaps.
          His arm is not the greatest, and if he plays regular, left field may be his best option.

          • cubtex

            Paul, LeMahieu has really been struggling lately in AAA. He was 0-19 last week and his average is down to .264. He has only 4 extra base hits in 132 Plate Appearances. He is not ready to be an everyday player.

          • Teluton

            Campana is an essential ingredient: his speed makes him a late inning threat- makes the opponent nervous and provides a spark to this plodding, wait for the long ball club. On a team often lacking in hustle he makes an
            impact along with Byrd and Barney by the way he plays and obviously
            loves the game.
             Under Hendry we’ve ignored the necessity for speed and most good teams have it. I remember Matty Alou  in the 60’s,who used to slap the ball to the left side and get on. He didn’t have Campana’s blazing speed. Also I hope B.Jackson gets here ASAP….we need to play kids and not repeat the nonsense we saw when Quade took over last year-  Tom,a former cricket player..!

          • paulcatanese

            A cricket player? Wow, I like that, thats a quick stick. I agree with Campana being in there, as you say though the kids and what they bring is much easier to watch. Watched the Yankees last night, they have a couple of burners, it could sure make a difference with the Cubs, would love to see more.

        • paulcatanese

          Ken, as an addition to what my response was to you a little while ago, I would also say that we all know the Cubs are not going anywhere this year. So why not experiment? Why not switch guys around once in a while, see what they have, move Castro over to third when Aram gets a day off, Barney over to short, and they always have DeWitt to cover second, or Baker. Make it fun for the kids, they would love it. Play Campana in the OF, play Colvin, so what if the outcome isnt in JH or Qua’s mindset, they absolutley have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

  • Brp921

    Now that the Reds have seen what a defensive liability Yonder Alonso is in the outfield, maybe they would be willing to trade him, since I’m sure they won’t replace Votto. If so, I wonder what it would take to get him?

    • Ripsnorter1

      This guy might be a real good fit for the Chicago Cubs. 

      • Brp921

        If the Cubs could put a package together for Alonso, that didn’t include Vitters, they could have an infield next year where Barney would be the old man and Castro the grizzled veteran.

        • Ripsnorter1

          It says right here: Vitters isn’t ready just yet, and won’t be at the start of 2012, as far as I can tell from here. 

          His glove at 3B (2011) isn’t very good: .902 fielding.
          His glove at 3B (2010) isn’t very good: .902 fielding.
          Can’t run: 4 SB, 7 CS.
          Doesn’t walk yet: 15 BB in 381 PA.
          .284 BA shows he’s adjusting to AA, and slugging .455 shows he’s adjusting power wise, too. Not a star yet, but you can see the potential.

          Sure, he’s 21 and maturing. May need another full year in AA before he’s ready for the jump to the bigs.

          • Brp921

            I know, it makes sense too. Vitters was a # 3 overall pick and Alonso a #8. I’d still prefer to keep Vitters though since he’s only 21. He might just suddenly get it and turn into a real good player. But I think if he’s who they had to have for Alonso you do it.

          • cubtex

            He doesn’t strike out either. Have you seen how few K’s he has? They didn’t draft him to steal bases. He was the called the best high school bat in the draft and I would not give up on him yet. I agree that he probably needs another year but it is foolish to write him off at age 21.

          • Ripsnorter1

            40 K’s in 352 AB. That’s 1 K per 9 AB. Sure beats Sorry=oh-no, eh?

            Still, here’s the scouting report on Vitters, and it ain’t great: B-.
            The scout says, “If there’s anything to get excited about it’s that he doesn’t turn 22 until the end of the month. He’s still young and has been at AA for a full season now, but he has too many holes in his game. About 30% of his games played this year have been at 1st base so there’s little doubt that he’s going to have to make the switch full time at some point soon. As a first baseman, even his decent power isn’t enough to offset his horrible on-base skills. He’s a poor runner (7 CS, 4 SB this season, 18 SB, 13 CS in his career). “

          • cubtex

            He needs to be more selective at the plate. He swings at too many pitcher’s pitches but he does put the bat on the ball. I wish they would keep him at 3rd since he is much more valuable there. He has the arm for 3rd but he needs to become more consistent. He wasn’t drafted as a basestealer. 3rd base is not known as a speed position. Look who is playing 3B for the Cubs now :)

        • Ryan7

          Vitters is not the next 3b. He is to on and off. Let’s face it he sucks.

          • Brp921

            Maybe he’ll turn out to be a bust maybe he won’t. He’s been in the minors awhile but he’s still only 21 years old. I think it’s a stretch to say he sucks. In the next year or so if he doesn’t progress any further then you’ll be right to think that.

        • Tony_Hall

          Why would you not want to include Vitters to get Alonso?

          • Brp921

            I’d include him if thats who they wanted. I would prefer to give him a little more time before giving up on him is all.

          • cubtex

            Because Alonso will be 25 in April. He has never hit more than 15 HR’s in the minors. He plays 1st base(a position that can easily be filled) and the obvious answer is….Vitters has more upside than Alonso.

          • Tony_Hall

            I’m all for giving Vitters more time, but he may be 25, before he starts to look ready.  He’s only hit 18 HR’s in a season.  I wasn’t saying I want Alonso, just that why would Vitters be someone you don’t want to give up.

            Seems to me 1B, just cost $10M to fill, and all we have received for the $10M was 2 months of offensive production…seems like it may be harder to fill than you think.

          • cubtex

            What did 3rd base cost to fill?

          • Tony_Hall

            By my calculations $97.5M for the last 8 years or an average of just over $12M.  For most of the years, ARam was a deal, but the last few, like so many big money deasl, was not so good.

            Vitters will not be a 3B, when or if he makes the majors, he already is spending more time at 1B, so I really doubt Vitters is going to replace ARam.

      • paulcatanese

        I think his bat would be a good addition,but I would hope his glove is better at first base than it is in the outfield. He really chopped it up out there.

    • cubtex

      It is hard to make trades within your own division but there are quite a few good young first base prospects in the minors if that is the direction the Cubs choose to go next year….Anthony Rizzo,Lars Anderson,Paul Goldschmidt,Chris Carter to name a few.

      • Brp921

        Rizzo and Goldschmidt coud be future stars.

        • cubtex

          I don’t think the Padres would trade Rizzo since he was part of the trade to replace AGon.

          • paulcatanese

            Thats too bad, if the Cubs got him, he could be billed as “the friend of the midnight cowboy”.

  • paulcatanese

    Would someone explain to me why I should be totaly unhappy with the play of Pena? I for one cannot figure out what he is looking for at the plate. He takes more called strike three’s than I have ever seen. Day before he squares for a bunt with two strikes,dosent move and takes strike three. Today he again takes the third strike watching. I havent kept track but it seems every time I’m watching he does the same thing, does he not know the strike zone?

    • Brp921

      I never understood guys taking close ones with two strikes either. Pena does seem to do that alot.

    • cubtex

      Look at his walk total Paul. I didn’t see the game today, but he is the one guy on the team who works the count(Now that Fuko is gone) I wish more hitters on this team would be as patient as Pena.

      • paulcatanese

        Thats what I cant figure out, is he willing to take that pitch that is too close or is he actually seeing it as a ball? He just seems very comfortable taking strike three. As you had said a few days ago,or it may have been yesterday Pena is starting to drive the ball to the left field area on outside pitches and thats a good sign. Ijust cannot figure what he’s looking for a walk or a home run.

        • cubtex

          Haven’t seen enough at bats of his to notice what you are seeing.

          • paulcatanese

            I’m lucky,or not ,depends how one looks at it. I have only missed about 9-10 games from the start of the year, can’t say they have all been a pleasure.

          • cubtex

            I would say this year Paul….pretty unlucky. This is one of the worst teams and seasons in a long long time.

          • paulcatanese

            Agree with that. Watching the Yanks and Red Sox,In comparison the Cubs are years away.

      • Calicub

        Personally I’m alright with pena resigning another one year deal with the cubs. He’s got desent defens power takes walks and his BA is obviously doing better than last year…

        • cubtex

          It will be interesting to see what direction they will go. They drafted Vogelbach,Shoulders,Gretzky and they have a couple of other 1st base prospects in the minors. Maybe they use a band aid for a couple of years there until they develop one of their own. First base is the easiest position to field(imo)

        • Tony_Hall

          He will want more than 1 year…no thanks.

  • Ripsnorter1

    Marquez Smith scouting report:

    “It seems rare to me that there’s a guy who has consistently hit as well as Smith has who has never gotten a shot at a big league job. It’s not just the Cubs either. He was available in last year’s Rule 5 and no team even took a flyer on him. The consensus seems to be that there’s little Smith can do to make up for whatever deficiency there is that we’re not seeing in the numbers. It’s not defense as he’s known as a good defender. It’s not like he’s a left fielder or 1st baseman. He plays 3rd base and could easily switch to 2nd if needed. Like I said last time, whatever it is that’s holding Smith back is something that we can’t see, but it’s obviously present. ”
    My comment: Jim Qlueless refused to resign Jim Edmonds, and so did all of the other GMs out there. So Edmonds took a year off. Then he comes back and has another fine year after taking a year off. All the GMs were dummies. And I think Smith deserves a shot, esp. since he could play 2B.

    • Calicub

      Maybe ARAM takes off after this season and Smith’s the third basemen of 2012?

    • cubtex

      Rip, Smith has very high strikeout totals, doesn’t hit a lot of homers and has zero speed. That is why no team took him as a rule 5.

      • Brentcarmona

        remember mcgehee spent quite a few years in the minors with us and his high was 12 but last year he broke out with 23 w 100+ rbi…i dont think smith has a shot with the cubs though. not veey high on him for some reason.

  • roseyc

    Here’s what’s funny the Reds have struggled and don’t appear to repeat as champs of the Central. But they are in striking distance although unlikely to make a charge to win it. They are playing they’re kids when injuries happen. The Cubs play Hill and Soriano you would think they are the ones in contention

  • paulcatanese

    Face it, the Cubs are not going to win the division, they are not going to the playoffs, they are not going to the World Series, and they are not going to finish over .500, so whats left?
     
    Why are the fans watching overpaid, under achieving veterans day after day and being thrilled when they get a win once in a while? Well thats what is being trotted out, and being staunch Cub fans we accept that, and follow.
     
    If management can pull this over the fan paying base year after year, why can they not play for the future with youngsters. I know what Byrd,Aram,Soriono,Pena,Baker,Ortiz,Lopez, and the rest of the grizzeled vets can do,as well as the rest of the Majors with thier scouting, everyone knows, so why pretend to “showcase” these guys. They will and they have lost with them annualy.Just to keep fans coming to the ballpark.

    Things are changing as evidenced by the fans and the appreciation they are showing for all the younger players, the hustle, the promise of new beginnings, and the fact that they are not going to improve if they stand still with the status quo.

    Been a Cub fan for a good deal of years, and for the first time (due to the CCO and the posters) I’m not sitting back and saying nothing, and like responding to the others on the site, at least my frustration has a place to vent, thank you all for the opportunity. Sorry people, I get sentimental oce in a while.

  • paulcatanese

    I wold like to see;

    Campana    LF                                       speed     Or reverse with Campana
    Jackson      Cf                                        speed
    Castro        SS                                       speed
    Aram          3B                                       oh well cant have it all
    Colvin         RF                                       good wheels
    Pena           1B                                       runs well when he gets on
    Soto            C                                        has to hit the long ball
    Barney       2B                                       good wheels smart runner

    This is what the Cubs have available now, not next year

    • paulcatanese

      Meant swap Campana and Jackson, both would be good leadoff hitters