Garza Great in Shutout of the Redbirds – Cubs 3 Cardinals 0

Game One Hundred Twenty-Six – Cubs 3 Cardinals 0
WP – Matt Garza (6-9) LP – Edwin Jackson (9-9, 2-2) Save – Carlos Marmol (29)

wflag.jpgThe Cubs beat the Cardinals for the second day in a row and Saturday’s win was all about Matt Garza … plus one big inning from Q’s offense.

Matt Garza dominated the Cardinals on Saturday afternoon after a less than spectacular start. The Cardinals loaded the bases in the first on a hustle double by Jon Jay and back-to-back one-out walks to Albert Pujols and Lance Berkman. After a meeting on the mound with Mike Quade, Garza induced a 6-4-3 inning ending double play off the bat of David Freese … and Garza never looked back.

Matt Garza was as good as he’s been all season. Garza allowed five hits (four after the first) and stuck out eight. Both of Garza’s free passes came in the first inning and he even started a 1-6-3 double play to end the fifth as well as executing his first successful sacrifice bunt of the season. Garza’s final line: no runs, five hits, two walks, a wild pitch and eight strikeouts in seven innings (110 pitches, 78 for strikes).

Matt Garza posted his first win at Wrigley since June 27 (Rockies).

All of the Cubs runs came on four hits in the fourth inning. The Cubs hit for the cycle in the inning and the three runs they scored turned out to be all that Matt Garza and the pen would need.

Edwin Jackson did not allow a hit in the first three innings and faced the minimum. Starlin Castro (1-for-4 with a run scored) recorded the Cubs first hit leading off the fourth and scored the game’s first run.

Aramis Ramirez (1-for-3 with a home run, two RBI and a walk) hit his team-leading 24th homer of the year, a two-run shot on the first pitch of the at bat. Ramirez leads the majors with 12 first pitch home runs on the season. After Carlos Pena (1-for-4 with a triple and a run scored) tripled, Marlon Byrd (1-for-3 with a double and a RBI) doubled him in with the Cubs third run.

The Cubs offense managed only six hits on Saturday afternoon … in the end Matt Garza just out-pitched Edwin Jackson.

Sean Marshall, Kerry Wood and Carlos Marmol combined for two perfect innings in relief of Garza … Cubs’ pitching handed the Cardinals their seventh shutout of the season, the Cardinals first since June 26 (Blue Jays).

With Saturday’s win, the Cubs posted their fourth consecutive series win at Wrigley (Cubs have won five of last six series) and improved to 56-70 (13-5 in August) on the year, 14 games below .500 …

Matt Garza struggled with his command, himself and Mike Quade in the first inning. Jon Jay reached on a hustle double to left center to start the game. Soriano got to the ball in the gap, spun around and made a strong throw to second. Barney missed the tag as Jay slid into second.

Garza retired Allen Craig on the ninth pitch of the at bat on a ground out to short. Garza was taking a lot of time in between pitches and quickly fell behind Albert Pujols 3-0. Quade asked for ball four to be issued intentionally and Garza did but was not happy about the decision. Garza then walked Lance Berkman on five pitches to load the bases with one out.

Garza was visibly upset and received a visit from Quade.

David Freese grounded into a 6-4-3 inning ending double play (0-2 pitch). Garza labored through a 23-pitch (13 strikes) first inning.

The Cubs did nothing against Edwin Jackson in the first.

Garza more than settled down in the second … and retired the Redbirds in order in the second on 11 pitches, 10 for strikes (34 total, 23 for strikes after two).

Jackson continued to mystify the Cubs in the second … and Q’s offense went in order again.

Matt Garza sat down the Cards in the third … 1-2-3 on just nine pitches (seven for strikes).

The Cubs finally put a runner on base in the bottom of the third. Geovany Soto worked a one-out walk but was erased when Garza bunted the ball too hard to Pujols. The Cardinals turned a 3-6-4 double play and Jackson faced the minimum through three innings.

The Cardinals did nothing against Garza in the fourth … Garza retired the side on 17 pitches, 11 for strikes.

The Cubs finally got a hit and put a run on the board in the bottom of the fourth.

Starlin Castro led off the fourth with a single to center, the Cubs’ first hit of the game. Darwin Barney sacrificed Castro to second … but it would not matter.

Aramis Ramirez launched the first pitch from Jackson into the bleachers in left. Ramirez’s Major League leading 12th homer on the first pitch gave the Cubs a 2-0 lead. Ramirez took over the team lead in homers with his 24th longball of the season.

Carlos Pena followed with his second triple of the season. Pena smoked a 1-2 pitch past Jay in right center. The ball rolled all the way to the vines and Pena slid into third safe. Marlon Byrd lined a 0-1 pitch into the gap in left center. Pena scored easily and Byrd hustled into second with a double.

The Cubs took a 3-0 lead after hitting for the cycle against Edwin Jackson … Castro singled; Ramirez homered; Pena tripled; Byrd doubled.

Alfonso Soriano looked at strike three and Colvin flied out to left to end the inning.

Skip Schumaker singled to left to start the fifth … and broke up Garza’s string of retiring 10 in a row. Molina popped out to second and Ryan Theriot grounded into a 1-4-3 inning ending double play. Garza faced the minimum on 11 pitches, eight for strikes (71 total, 49 for strikes).

Geovany Soto led off the fifth with a ground rule double to left. The ball hit and skipped into the ivy … and disappeared. Garza dropped down his first successful sac bunt of the year. Soto advanced to third with one out. With the infield in, Castro grounded out to second. Darwin Barney put together a good at bat that ended in a lineout to right on the eighth pitch.

After five complete, the Cubs had a 3-0 lead.

Matt Garza allowed his third hit of the afternoon in the sixth. Jon Jay ripped a 2-2 pitch into center. Garza refocused and blew a fastball by Allen Craig for the second out of the inning … then jammed Albert Pujols with a 95 MPH fastball that resulted in a pop out (foul ground) to Aramis Ramirez to end the inning.

The Cubs did nothing against Edwin Jackson in the bottom of the sixth.

Lance Berkman led off the seventh with the Cardinals’ fourth hit … a single to right on a 0-2 pitch. Garza struck out Freese swinging but gave up a bloop single to Skip Schumaker on a 2-2 offering. With runners on first and second with one out, Yadier Molina hit a tailor-made double play ball to Ramirez. Aramis stepped on third and fired to first … but the throw was high and pulled Pena off the bag.

Ryan Theriot stepped in and fell behind 0-2. Garza uncorked a wild pitch that allowed Schumaker to advance to third. With runners on first and third with two down, Theriot struck out swinging to end the inning.

Matt Garza departed after the seventh with a 3-0 lead. Garza threw 110 pitches, 78 for strikes.

Edwin Jackson retired the Cubs in order in the seventh.

Mike Quade used two pitchers to record three outs in the top of the eighth. Sean Marshall struck out pinch-hitter Matt Holliday swinging on a 2-2 pitch … and Jon Jay flied out to left. Quade went back to his pen and brought in Kerry Wood to face Allen Craig. Woody retired Craig on two pitches (fly out to right) to end the inning.

Darwin Barney reached on a two-out single in the eighth off Mitchell Boggs. Barney advanced to second on a wild pitch with Aramis at the plate (2-2 offering). Ramirez took Boggs’ next pitch for ball four. Pena popped out to Theriot at short to end the inning.

Carlos Marmol sat down the Cardinals in order to end the game.

It is always a good day when the Cubs beat the Cardinals.

Box Score from Yahoo Sports

Rodrigo Lopez is scheduled to face Jake Westbrook in the series finale on Sunday night.

Quote of the Day

"Failure seldom stops you. What stops you is the fear of failure." – W.J. Slim

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  • Neil

    I apologize for the commenting system being down during the game today.
    Disqus was doing a system-wide upgrade/maintenance that I had no control

    • studio179

      No worries. It would have been nice if Disqus could have done those updates on one of the nearly every game day the Cubs play poorly so frustration would not rule. Not on a day they shut out the Red Birds. 

      Oh well. :)

  • Ryan7

    I don’t care who disagrees with me or not, but when JH traded for Garza it was one if not the best things he did for the cubs. I’m sick and tired of people saying that the Garza deal was crap. When will people see that Garza was better than everyone that we sent to the rays. I just wish Jim would have been able to pull more of these kind of deals for us. I wish Jim the best of luck and thank for hanging around like u did at the end. Your a true cub in my eyes now JH. Now say what u want about me as u will. I’m not saying it wasn’t Time for him to go, but what other GM or anyone for that matter WOULD HAVE STAYED AROUND . The answer is NONE.

    • cubtex

      Cmon Ryan. We could use a AA shortstop(don’t we have a young shortstop? I think his name is Castro) a reserve outfielder, a AA pitcher who is having a terrible year, a backup catcher, and Sam Fuld a lot more than a starting major league pitcher. That is the Cubs strength. The Cubs are loaded with mlb pitching and minor league starters. That makes zero sense what you are saying.

      • Aaron

        ha ha…I knew you’d come out in support of Ryan, Cubtex….but read what I wrote about the trade, and put your critical thinking hat on, and realize that it was NOT a good move, because he’ll be 30 years old when the Cubs are competitive again (unless the new GM cleans house)…plus, he’ll be Zambrano-esque in his salary by then. Is that really a good investment of prospects?!?!

        • cubtex

          I know you have seen that I don’t necessarily believe it has to be a 3 year fix in THIS division. With money off books and some key moves they can be in it again as soon as next year.

    • Aaron

      I don’t believe anyone is questioning whether or not Garza is a solid player…In fact, I believe he could eventually develop into a solid #2 starter.

      What everyone seems to be in disagreement over is the haul of prospects the Cubs had to give up was more in line with what a #1 starter would cost.

      Just because Archer had a tough start to the season (he’s now sitting at 8-6, 4.21 ERA, 24 starts, 130 IP, 130 hits allowed, 75 walks, 115 K’s, 1.573 WHIP), doesn’t mean that he isn’t a solid prospect.

      And just because Lee is having a tough start to his promotion to AA doesn’t mean he’s not a solid prospect either. 

      Guyer had a .313/.386/.501 slash line in his first taste of AAA with 26 doubles, 3 triples, 11 hr, 55 RBI, and 13 SB (in 2 games at the MLB level, he has 1 hr, 2 RBI in 6 AB’s)

      In 20 games at the MLB level, Chirinos has 1 hr, 7 RBI in 55 AB’s

      Fuld has a .242/.306/.367 slash line with 17 doubles, 5 triples, 3 hr, 26 RBI and 20 SB at the MLB level

      So Guyer, Chirinos, and Fuld have already contributed at the MLB level with Lee and Archer poised to contribute in the not-too-distant future.

      Sure, Chirinos probably won’t contribute more than a .250 avg, but he supplies above average defense at catcher and is versatile enough to play in the IF. And Guyer might not be more than a 4th/5th OF…same as Fuld.

      But the fact is, the Cubs had a major hole in their OF for a back-up, and Koyie Hill is NOT an MLB catcher….and now with their pitching injuries mounting in the minors, it sure would’ve been nice to have depth with Archer.

      But understand this Ryan…..Matt Garza earned $5.95 million in arbitration this year. He is set to earn probably $9-10 million next year, and in his last year of arbitration in 2013, he’ll probably earn $15 million or so.

      For a team that is NOT expected to compete for another 2-3 years, is that a wise investment of prospects? You have to ask yourself about future injuries, etc. Garza has averaged about 195 IP for the past 3 seasons, and is poised to do about that much this season. He will turn 28 next year, and in his first year of free agency, will hit 30 years old, at which time, he’ll require a Zambrano-esque salary of $16-18 million per season. That’s a LOT of mileage on a power arm.

      Meanwhile…at Garza’s free agent season…..
      Guyer will turn 27
      Lee will turn 22
      Archer will turn 24

      Furthermore, those 3 players combined would likely cost you $1.4 million

      The bottom line is, you MUST have a plan, and Hendry clearly did not. He was flying by the seat of his pants, and that is ultimately why he is on the sidelines right now.

      If the Cubs were expected to compete next year, then I’d say that they did really well with the Garza trade. But here is the likely lineup for the Cubs next year (ages next year):

      C-Soto 29 yrs old
      1B-Pena 34 yrs old
      2B-Barney 26 yrs old
      SS-Castro 22 yrs old
      3B-ARAM 34 yrs old
      LF-Soriano 36 yrs old
      CF-Byrd 34 yrs old
      RF-Colvin 26 yrs old or Jackson 23 yrs old

      Rotation will be…
      Dempster 35 yrs old
      Garza 28 yrs old
      Wells 29 yrs old

      It’s possible they could insert Struck, Cashner, or McNutt in the rotation, but it’s highly unlikely.

      I guess my point is, if you look at that team, I just see no possible way it could win next season. Obviously, a new GM could work some magic, and start trading away spare parts, or making a few shrewd waiver claims in the offseason or Rule 5….but this team is not built to compete next year. It’s built to compete in 2013 and beyond when all but Soriano’s albatross contract come off the books.

      That’s why adding Garza for a bunch of guys that would be primed to contribute in 2013 for cheap was NOT a good move in my opinion.

      The only pitcher (other than the injured Whitenack) worth mentioning in the Cubs system right now is Del Valle, the 22 yr old Cuban lefty that reportedly throws 98 mph, and currently has a 2.49 ERA (AZL and Peoria) in 12 games, 10 starts, and 50 IP with 14 walks and 42 K’s. I used to think Kirk was primed for success, but he’s stuck at Peoria with a 3.56 ERA, and has been lit up fairly regularly since his no-hitter over a month ago.

      Antigua has also had a decent amount of success at Daytona. But the problem for these guys I just mentioned is none of them are close to the big league club right now. 

      Any team that has Randy Wells in the rotation at this point in his career is poised to fail….especially if they have him as a 3rd starter (which is what he is right now). 

      Another year of Soriano in LF, and Byrd in CF is also going to make for another very long year. Soriano’s bat and legs can’t hold up anymore, and Byrd is NOT a CF, and his bat won’t translate to a corner spot.

      If the new GM came in, and did an overhaul, trading somewhat decent players like Byrd, Soto, ARAM (after his option is picked up), and allow guys like Johnson, Baker, Grabow, Pena, Hill, Lopez, Ortiz, and DeWitt to walk as free agents, and just cut ties with Soriano by eating his contract…..well, then you’re in business, because the offense could overcome some of the pitching deficiencies. 

      If Soto, ARAM, and Byrd could bring back 1 or 2 decent pitching prospects between them, then I think you’re in business, because you’d go with a lineup like this:
      C-Castillo, Clevenger
      2B-Barney, LeMahieu (I’d even look to trade Barney at his peak value right now)
      SS-Castro, M. Gonzalez
      LF-Flaherty, Ridling (also can play 1B)
      CF-Jackson, Campana

      If guys like Vitters, Flaherty, LeMahieu, Jackson, Clevenger, and even Colvin himself attend “Camp Colvin” again next year….you might be looking at a very exciting lineup with power. The thing I like about that team, is the versatility and speed. 

      I wish the Cubs never converted Dolis to a closer this year, because I thought his arm would play out very well in the rotation, as he had good success in the rotation early this year. If that were the case, then the Cubs could just cut ties with Wells outright, and not worry about who takes his spot.

      So….do you see the problems with the Garza trade now? It’s NOT that Garza is a bad pitcher….he just wasn’t worth the depth the Cubs traded. If Lee finds his bat again at AA, the Cubs might’ve had a middle IF of Lee at SS and Castro at 2B with Lee leading off, and it would’ve been even more exciting to watch. They also could’ve afforded to give Guyer a look in RF for the struggling Colvin. But do you see the holes the trade has created?

      • Richard Hood

        Aaron I actually still think it is mighty early to say that Garza is a good or bad trade. But we needed better starting pitching. If Cashner would have worked as a starter we would not be having this conversation about the old has been’s that have been around this club all year. That one injury combined with ineffectiveness by Z and Dempster killed this team. Even with the guys you mentioned being bad we have been a good run scoring team. If we would have starting pitching early it would have been totally different.

         Colvin was suppose to play that role that Fuld plays for TB so that is a wash. Campana now plays that role and is younger so again Fuld would not have that spot. Lee was blocked at every level with Castro (at Cubs), Marwin Gonzalez(at Dbl A) and Barney (who was suppose to be mining the ss at TripleA). Ashner was the one that hurt but we got a young lefty back to make up for that hurting. I always said that if you trade from a strength in your minors to get your guys that you major league club then it is a win trade regardless of the names involved.

        Look at the Club as the GM saw it in January and it makes a lot more sense than looking at how things have turned out. If we did not have Garza for next year especially things would be in a lot worse shape than they are now.

      • carmelo

        Don’t believe what you read about Del Valle throwing 98—–he ave. 89          with his fb—last night he touched 90—-I don’t know where Nightingale gets his infomation, he’s way off base again.  The trade was really Garza for Archer and Lee.  Do it again in a minute.  Why will it take 2-3 years to contend again?  2006 we were really bad, won in 2007, 2008.

        • Ryan7

          I AGREE. I will say it again. The rickettes have a plan. The have had a plan from day one.

          Let’s look at this for a min.

          The Rickettes said when they bought the team that they were going to change a lot of things. They didn’t say it was going to happen over night. They said they were going to draft high. They did. They said they were going to fix player development, they did. They said they were going to look into where spring training was going to be held and were they felt would be better for the team to hold spring training Florida or Arizona. They did that to. They said the were going to look at the front office and make changes as they see fit, they did that to. Ya it took two years to do. Sure its because they were waiting closer to the time to where the contacts fell off. Say what u want that they could have cut players when they bought the team. But why eat money just to have to replace them with more money for another two years when they could wait and play it out till closer to the time when the money starts to come in.

          Why do u think everything has happens the way it has. They fix what they could when they could and waited on what they couldnt.

          Anyone know this prayer

          God grant me the serenity to to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

          That’s what the Rickettes have done so far and its there time to show everything that they can do. This is the Rickettes first chance to do what they have wanted to do with out being bent over the table.

        • Aaron

          could you tell me where you saw the 89-90 mph? That’s disappointing if you’re right

          • carmelo

            I can’t tell you that—-you just have to trust me on it—-ave. fb is 89—touches 90.  Really bothers me that Nightingale reported he throws 98, poor reporting on his part–then again he said JH was good for 2012.

      • Ryan7



        • Tony_Hall

          Dude – relax on the all caps, you are hard enough to follow, without making it even harder to read.

          The prospects we gave up, are not bench players, they are guys in the minors, who are working their way up.  Not all will make it.  But unless the Cubs win in 2012 or 2013 at the latest, this deal will not be a good one.  And when I say win, a don’t mean divisions, I mean World Series.  Because that is why you trade 5 prospects for a guy entering arbitration years. 

          I would much rather of traded prospects for Hellickson (I know the Rays weren’t offering him up, because they are smarter than that and wanted Garza gone), who ended up having a better year than Garza, saved the Rays $5M this year, approx $10M next year, and approx $15M in 2013, and they received 5 prospects, who have already started helping the major league club.  The Rays won this trade already!

          • cubtex

            The prospects we gave up are not bench players or role players? Really? Who did we give up who is a guaranteed above average mlb player? The Rays won the trade already? I like an arguement Tony when two people are using logical points and counterpoints but that is a ridiculous statemen! Notice the exclamation point. 6 Ab’s for Guyer in the majors, Sam Fuld hitting .240 and a backup catcher in Chirinos has been huge win for the Rays. They are dancing in the streets of Tampa. By the way…Lee is down to .158 in AA and they are sizing his MLB uniform now to be the starting shortstop for “Your Tampa Bay Rays in 2013”

          • Tony_Hall

            They are not bench players or role players, they are current starters in the minors.  No one is guaranteed anything, not even Garza.

            The Rays have won the trade already and if the Cubs had at least made the playoffs, they could count it as a win as well.  You see a good trade, both sides win!

            The Rays have already won, because they don’t need even one prospect to be a star for this to have been a good deal. They saved $5M this year, around $10M in 2012, and $15M in 2013 for a total of $30M, plus opened up a spot in the rotation for Hellickson, who has outpitched Garza.  For them this is a win.  

            For the Cubs to consider this a win, they need to win a World Series next years, with Garza, so they can count it as a win as well, before some of these bench warmers make it far enough for you not to consider them worthless.

          • cubtex

            So a salary dump is a win no matter who you get back? Ye of low standards.

          • Tony_Hall

            It wasn’t just a salary dump.

            Why can’t you see that they received an open rotation spot, they already had filled, by a player, who has had a better year than Garza.  Garza is basically at his peak.  I hope he puts it all together in one year (2012 would be nice), but Hellickson has more upside than Garza.  

            Good teams move out players, when they get expensive, when they can replace them internally.  The Cubs play K Hill, because they think he is better than Castillo (or even Chirinos was).  Big difference in philosophies.

          • cubtex

            Good teams trade depth at a positions for value. The Rays had a great trade chip in Garza, and in my opinion got back a poor return. Great for the Cubs! Here you have a pitcher(in a market screaming for starting pitching) coming off 200 IP, 15 wins and a no hitter and you get back a bunch of ? Many scouts have said the Cubs didn’t give away any future stars and looking at the numbers and(my eyes) when I have seen them. I agree. So again, if there are 3 or 4 teams wanting Soto…do you not think it is important to the future of the team to not want to get back the best possible return? I am sure the new GM when hired would think so.

          • Tony_Hall

            And other scouts who have said the Cubs gave up to much. If it will make you feel better, I am so glad we have Garza on the Cubs.  He has been the difference maker, I have wanted this team to add, and it made a huge difference in this season.

            What does Soto have to do with this?  If they want to trade Soto, they missed then window, last offseason, and in July, when desperate teams may have overpaid.  Now they need to bring him back next year, use Castillo or Clevenger as the back-up, and hope he shows enough to make teams want him, and that Castillo and Clevenger are ready.  Of course we would already know this, if we didn’t waste the last 2 season, with Hill as the back-up.

          • cubtex

            that was just an expample of trading at a position of depth with players ready at the minors to take a position in the majors. The Cubs would save money here by getting rid of Soto and it is the same example you used for Garza. Save money so it is a win of a trade no matter who we get back if Castillo performs at equal or better level than Soto. That is exactly what you said about Garza…isn’t it?

          • Tony_Hall

            Yes – if Castillo and Clevenger can perform as well as Soto and Hill, then trading them is a win (save money, gain years of control, in non arbitration years).  What we get back in return is just bonus, if they pan out.  Hopefully it would fill a need for depth at another position.

          • cubtex

            I hope the new gm has higher standars than this. You should get something back to benefit the franchise everytime you trade someone of value.

          • Tony_Hall

            You are assuming Soto has value.  I will go over teams and their catching situations, another time, but not many teams are looking for 2nd year arbitration catchers, who hit 230, and are average at best behind the plate.

      • John_CC

        Garza is a solid #2 starter right now. 

        • Tony_Hall

          He is a #2 overall, but on many of the playoff caliber teams would be #3 or even #4.  

          I sorted MLB pitchers for min 140 IP, and by WHIP.

          Garza was 47th on page 2 with Daniel Hudson, Anibel Sanchez, Matt Harrison, RA Dickey, Madison Bumgardner, then Garza.  Not surrounded by elite guys.

          There are 12 guys below 1.10 WHIP 

          Verlander, Beckett, Weaver, Haren, Hamels, Kershaw, Tomlin, Shields, Halladay, Lee, Hudson, Cain.

          46 total names with better WHIPs, they all have their own story, about their  defense missing plays, or themselves throwing the ball away.  That is where Garza ranks, year after year, in the 40’s, which is very good.  Just not elite.

          Not sure if this will stay sorted, by here is the link.

          • cubtex

            Sometime Tony you need to stop looking at these Fantasy Baseball numbers and stats and watch the game. I would love to be a real gm and make some trades with a guy like you. You rank players like Beckett,Daniel Hudson,Matt Harrison, Madison Baumgardner RA Dickey and others ahead of Garza? Sorry dude but stop looking at your fantasy reports and use some logic here. Beckett has big time durability issues and is having his first decent year in a while. Let’s look at Daniel Hudson. All you look at is WHIP. Look at the entire picture here. 171 IP 180 Hits and a 3.83 ERA. Why does he have a better WHIP than Garza…because his walks are lower. The problem with WHIP is that it doesn’t take into account…intentional walks or pitching around a dangerous hitter to go after the guy on deck. This is smart pitching but it affects your WHIP in a negative way. Do you think any GM in baseball values RA Dickey more than Garza? Cmon dude. 

          • Tony_Hall

            These aren’t fantasy baseball stats, these are just stats.  This is a look at pitchers WHIPS.  I never said that all these guys are better than Garza, only where he ranks and what “type” of pitchers are above him.  They aren’t exactly aces either.  

            If you really believe Garza’s WHIP is where it is because he pitches around batters, and intentional walks, so be it.  But, I bet the guys at the top do the same thing.

          • cubtex

            Tony, a lot of guy’s with decent WHIP’s are guys who don’t walk anyone. I believe in the hits per innings pitched more to judge a guy’s future and current value. Some of those guys that fantasy baseball ranks ahead of Garza are guys who have given up more than double digit hits per innings pitched. That is a guy who is very hittable. I feel that WHIP tell part of the picture but hits per innings pitched is extremely important to look at.

          • Tony_Hall

            Ok – we will keep searching for a stat, that Garza looks elite in.

            Batting average against – is that good enough for you.


            Garza is 32nd in this one.

            Right behind Halladay, but you can compare their other stats if you want, they aren’t close though.

          • cubtex

            Right. You need to look at the entire picture. Roy Halladay is right with Garza on that stat and he is considered the best pitcher in the NL. Look at everthing Tony. This is the problem last year when you were on the Casey Coleman bandwagon last year and you were saying how he should be in the rotation and how starting pitching was not a need. Use your eyes. I have seen with my own eyes Casey Coleman pitch in the minor leagues for 2 years. I stated all offseason on how he he cannot be counted on.  He had a lot of ATOM balls last year and got away with some pitches. This is why you need to evaluate everything.

          • Tony_Hall

            He is the one of the best, because all of his numbers are good.

            I have always said Coleman is a number 5 at best, and can fill a rotation that rotation spot.  I have never even used him in my future years rotations.

          • cubtex

            Look back to your posts when the Garza trade was made and in April.

          • Tony_Hall

            I had Coleman has an option in the rotation, that he should be given an opportunity.  That he was one of many options they had.  I would rather Coleman was getting starts than many of the guys they have been using.  This season is going nowhere, why not run him out there every 5 days and give him 20 starts to see where he would be at the end of that time period. 

          • cubtex

            because he is not good and shouldn’t be looked at as your future.

          • Tony_Hall

            I agree he is not a part of the future, I just repeated, that I don’t consider him for future years.  But isn’t better to let him pitch, then many of these over the hill guys, picked up off of the scrap heap.

          • Tony_Hall

            Once again, these aren’t fantasy points, these are real baseball stats.  

            In fantasy baseball – Garza is 51st in a standard scoring league – 10 spots behind Hellickson.

          • cubtex

            again fantasy… don’t quote me on this but this is close….Hellickson 140 total MLB innings pitched….Garza 870 total MLB innings pitched

          • Tony_Hall

            Real life stats as well

            Hellickson 142.1 IP – 114 H
            Garza 146.2 IP – 138 H 

            So you don’t like any player with less experience – are you sure you weren’t a JH supporter.  You keep knocking the young guys.

          • cubtex

            I am just saying this is Hellickson’s very first year. How many one year wonders have there been? Hellickson is a very good pitcher…I am not denying that but let’s not put him in the hall of fame after 142 innings.

          • Tony_Hall

            I’m comparing him to Garza – he’s not going to Cooperstown.

          • Tony_Hall

            We are getting pretty small on our width, and we have beaten this horse to death…again.  Always fun having a discussion with you.  I see your side to this, just think it was the wrong year.

          • cubtex

            Have a good day! Time to do some family stuff and honey do’s.

      • cubs1967

        the holes the trade created???…….really??

        please, we traded a backup C who did not hit and was sent down, a matt murton clone, a maybe prospect pitcher who could end up in the pen and a SS, who could be a stud, but so was vitters 2 yrs ago.

        garza has thrown a no-no and been ALCS MVP.  nuff said.

        the goal is to win a WS……..having clevenger, lamaheui, flaherty, etc is not the answer.  nor is wells in the rotation, assuming cashner is not ruined, he needs to be there plus guys like hamels and cj wilson.

        this is not mlb 2k12 or mlb the show where you can build up the rooks and win; cubs fans need to be discussing fielder, hamels, wilson, etc; time to expect a championship team, not the cheapest team of prospects thinking the are gonna win. 

        also, vitters is a bust; time we all admit it; along w/ grant johnson, mark pawlek, vitters, colvin sort of, tim wilken has blown alot of #1 picks.

        103 yrs and counting; there is NO grace period.

        • Tony_Hall

          I think the Cubs will end up with Fielder this offseason, as when you look around at likely landing spots, it sure seems like they are the team that can afford his annual and overall contract, that needs a 1B.

          Not sure what you mean with Hamels as he won’t have 6 years of service time, so he isn’t a FA, just will be arbitration eligible, he is going nowhere.  CJ Wilson, if he makes to the FA market (I think Texas resigns him fast), he is an option, but I doubt it.  

          It really has nothing to do with fielding the cheapest team, or that the young team will win, it has to do with building a team, using your prospects to see which ones can make it, building value in your prospects, so you can trade them, when their value is high, which JH just wouldn’t do.  

          This is not MLB 2k12 or mlb the show, you are right, you just can’t trade for all of the top MLB players, you have to develop most of your team, internally, use FA, to fill holes by signing difference makers when they are available, and signing versatile guys, that are value FA signings (ex. Derosa) and continue to turn the roster over, except for the difference makers.  If you continue to Sell High and Buy Low, your overall system will get better than the other teams.

          Sorry this is not a quick fix, but then again, building a team to be competitive, year after year, will take time to build, but should produce for many, many years.  Quick fix, win it this year plans, that JH used, year after year, get you close, but didn’t win, because the following years, weren’t thought about, and they can get ugly fast.

      • J Daniel


        Agree with you on a much of this post except the Garza trade.  You have to have great starting pitching.  Garza is not a #1 and maybe not even a #2 on a great staff but would be an outstanding #3.  To me it is not clear on what was given up for him as it could turn out to be a whole pile of nothing – time will tell.

        I agree that they can’t compete with Soriano and Byrd in the lineup.  Byrd is at Best a #4 outfielder on a good team.

        Do not agree with Vitters at 3rd base.  Maybe he can do it.  Should be up now to find out.  I have not been a big Colvin guy but maybe he can do it.

        Not sure how much you can get for Barney?

    • Tony_Hall

      You don’t know that no one else would have stayed around. I’m sure this has happened before, but they didn’t publicize that they did it.  They publicized it to show how great of a guy Jim is, and to make it easier for him to get another job.  Great character on both their parts.

  • Aaron

    Great game today. I loved every minute of it, especially Garza coming back from that dreadful start to the game.

    His reaction on the mound, coupled with Dempster’s earlier this year, Z’s comments (though he’s gone now), among others, where they’ve questioned Q-Ball, just goes to show the lack of respect he really has.

    I read an encouraging article today on who the Cubs might go after. It seems Ben Cherrington is one of the frontrunners, because he has everything Ricketts wants. 

    I am starting to wonder if their trip to Boston involved scouting out Cherrington as well…hmmmmmmmmmmmm

    • cubtex

      That Garza stare in the dugout after Q ordered the intentional walk to Pujols in the 1st was priceless!

      • paulcatanese

        Saw it and agree, the on the air Grace commented that Qua turned the whole thing around with Garza after his trip to the mound. And did it again and again. praising Qua. Wasnt it a short time ago that Grace said the Cubs made a mistake with Qua and should have hired Sandberg?

    • J Daniel

      That is good news.  Personally, I would pull an Andre Dawson with Theo Epstein.  Fill in the blank check to become the GM of the Cubs.  It would have to really force him to consider it – bring a title to the Red Sox and the Cubs, WOW!  

      I feel that he would be perfect as he has done it before in a similar situation as far as history.  I think that the pressure is much greater with the Cubs than may people realize and having done it before will prevent chasing a mistake with another and then compound it.  That is what started to happen with JH.

      If Theo is out of question I want one of his guys.

      • Aaron

        I agree with you, but Epstein is going nowhere….he’s got it good in Boston. I think Cherrington would suffice.

        The question, however, is if he were to come on…what type of GM is he? Is he a fan of the young guys the Red Sox have brought up? Or, is he a fan of the JD Drew, John Lackey, Crawford, etc. type of signings/trades? 

        • Richard Hood

          Theo is under contract till 2012. I do not think the Cubs would even get permission to talk to him.

          There is one person that everyone seems to either gloss over or not even remember that should be high on the list though and  that is John Hart from Cleveland and Texas. He built the Indians into what should have been a dynasty.

          • J Daniel

            He is under contract but you never know about that.  I would certainly ask and pry.  Maybe they want Cherrington to take over for him???

            Hart would be very good as well.  I would prefer someone who has done it before and he has built teams.  Really not interested in someone from a great pedigree – they are like prospects in the minors – until proven they are suspects.

            There are times when a new unproven guy would be ok but I do not think this is the time and place.  It has to be the right hire or here we come 1970’s.

          • Richard Hood

            I totally agree that there needs to be someone that has GM on there resume at some point. I know there is a lot of guys that are ready to be GM’s it seems just they should not walk into the Cubs front office and basically be the Team President on the baseball side of things.

             I have actually grown to understand why Kenny is still going to be here. I think that stripping of any input on baseball decisions is smart. He is suppose to be a financial guru at raising revenue. So be it just I think that Team President is the wrong title for him.

          • Tony_Hall

            Richard – Agree on Kenney’s title – Tom Ricketts is acting like the team President, Kenney is VP of Business Operations.

        • Brp921

          The more I read about Cherrington, the more I like him. I would be supportive of hiring him.

  • Anthony

    Bandwagon game-by-game posts, and expect a few imperfection ones?

    When Garza has a bad outing, make sure you refer back to being his fan?

  • Anonymous47701

    What do you have when an organization brings in Brian Cashman and Andrew Friedman altogether?

    “Kentucky ‘Fried’ Cashman!” HA HA HA HAAAA!!

  • Bredstik

    This just in – apparently the reason it took a month for the Hendry firing to become public was due to the people Hendry hired to clean out his office. They were overpaid & then conveniently came up injured and underperformed…

  • Tony_Hall

    I like Matt Garza.  I would rather have him on my team, than not.  I would just prefer to have 2 guys ahead of him (or even 3) in the rotation.

    People always want to say how Garza’s record is because the Cubs have blown games, or he has taken tough losses.  Here is a list of tough losses.  Seems like there are other pitchers in MLB, this has happened to.

    • cubtex

      If the Cubs could find 2 guys ahead of Garza or even 3… your world series tickets now( no matter who they have in the field)

      • Tony_Hall

        Actually not true.  There are other teams where he would be #3 (or even lower) and they are not guaranteed making the World Series.

    • Brp921

      I like Garza to. He is a solid pitcher. I don’t see the Zambrano temperment comparisons that some contributers point out. He has certainly had chances to point fingers this year but has been nothing but upbeat and supportive to his teammates. As far as what they gave up for him being to much, only time will tell, but I think he will be a good pitcher in our rotation.

  • Demitri

    Man can’t wait till this season is over. Nothing to look forward to

  • paulcatanese

    Anytime a pitching staff shuts out the Cardinals for nine innings is a good day for them. Everyone did well, including the great Marmol.
    I would say the highlight of the day was Garza in that 1-6-3 double play. When hit, I thought oh no, but he pulled it off. Good day for pitching.

    • Brp921

      I agree Paul, and I have to say, Garza turned it around after Quade went to the mound, I was impressed. I have critisized Quade quite a bit this year, and I haven’t changed my mind, but I give him credit for that move. Whether it was because of Quade going out or not Garza got it together.

  • paulcatanese

    I would hate to see Feilder and Pujols leave their respective teams. This constant demand for more money is ruining the game. Those two teams have these guys as signature players and need to stay for the good of the game. As far as the Cubs retaining one of them, we need to raise our own, that we can call true Cubs, and just not throw money out the door. Any team with a bankroll can avail themselves of players but is taking the game to a level that is dropping fans from the base that appreciates what the game is all about.

    • Richard Hood

      Actually Milwakee’s main man so to speak is Braun and he is locked up long term. But I do agree that the constant threat of free agency is killing the game. I have been a firm believer that MLB should jump in and offer to pay a percentage of any contract that they deem in the best interest of baseball. Pujols in STL certainly fits that bill.

      • paulcatanese

        Like the response Richard, and thats a good idea with MLB paying a percentage of a contract. I mentioned Fielder over Braun only because
        I think Fielder is more of a complete player. I think his defense is better than
        Braun’s otherwise I agree with you. Braun has had some anxious moments out there, but no doubt he can hit the ball. Fielder does not run badly either, faster than he looks. MLB should play more of a role than they do now, before it gets totaly out of hand, if it has not already. Baseball needs all of the teams that they have now, and small market teams will be completely forced out of baseball if something is not done.
        But that brings up another venue, the Cubs are a high market team, but have done little in the way of building a winner. Contracts that were and now are suspect is preventing them from going forward. This is one reason I would prefer they build from within as what they deem neccesary to get a winner would mean an exhorbanite amount of dollars, and they would be in the same fix that they are now.
        I cannot blame bad contracts or trades to the demise of the Cubs as no one knew how they would turn out, but I do think about the long term of the contracts and hope they would curtail those as much as they can. I have never understood that as a player ages he is given more money as they are not real estate that goes up in value the longer one holds on to it. They just get older.

    • Brp921

      I agree about free agency. Ballplayers were really taken advantage of before free agency, but baseball was a better game. I wish baseball could find a way to fix it to where the players were treated fair and the fans didn’t have to see their best players jump teams so often, or pay through the nose to see a game. 

      • paulcatanese

        It compares a little to college coaches who have recruited players and they jump to another school for an increase in dollars, never fair to the kids who signed to go there.

  • paulcatanese

    Hate to bring up old school here, but if it were not for an injury in spring training,we probably not have had a chance to see Darwin Barney play this year. Augie Ojeda
    would be at second base instead Qua liked him a lot and would have preferred another veteran in the lineup,as he leans toward that thinking.

    • Richard Hood

      Actually Paul I think that Ojeda would not have mattered healthy or not if DeWitt would have came out this spring ready to play. I still think that DeWitt was penciled in at 2nd and he just laid a serious egg. Ojeda would have made the team as a back up maybe but only if Barney would have struggled in spring.

      • paulcatanese

        You are right, I totaly forgot about DeWitt. I guess with the way he has been in the outfield has dimmed my memory of that.

  • cubs1967

    multiple media outlets from the Score, Fox, ESPN and Phil Rogers of all people have said launching JH was only a half-assed attempt to fix the problem becuz PK left Kenny Crane, his uniform (he has one) and his clown act around.  too much smoke here not to be fire; and if a good candidate like Friedman says NO becua of it; well then all organizations are run from the top down………..and after 103 yrs do we really deserve this.

    someone should ask Ricketts why not hire Gillick??………..

    here’s hoping we are not being set up for failure becuz the clown Crane is around……….and god knows cubs fans optimism followed by disappointment.

    103 yrs and counting; there is NO grace period.

    • Brp921

      I was a little disappointed when Tom Rickets announced the new GM would report directly to him. I was hoping he would hire Gillick to oversee the baseball operations and hire the new GM.