Really a gold glover,allstar and world series champion a loser? I agree Lee has not done anything great this year but,judging him only on this year is not smart (one year does not a career make). Derreck is a good player that any market team would love playing 1st (provided they don't have a guy named Pujols).

From what you wrote Aaron I think you would have traded Ryne Sandberg after '88 when he had a .419 slg. and grounded into 14 DPs while only batting .268 (boy this guy must have been garbage in your eyes.)

Ted Lilly is a good mentor to the Cub pitching staff. To trade him just to save money will prove disastrous if they can't get anything good out of a trade. I've been a Cub fan for many years, and I get tired of always having to listen to that same old scenario: the Cubs are in the process of rebuilding. Realistically, they've been rebuilding for a very long time.

Since the conversation has moved to passing personal jusdgements, mine is the only loser in this thread is Aaron.

I'm sorry that some feel like the coversation has made a bad turn, but I feel that some of Aaron's points are valid, its just a question of symantics. I don't want to put words in Aaron's mouth, but I think what he ment instead of DLee being a loser, is that he lacked professionalism. What separates a professional athlete from a fan is the athele's drive to succeed and maximize his talents in their particular sport. That clearly doesn't seem to be the case with DLee, who is putting other issues ahaead of this. And, I'm surprised at you, Gramps. Any athletes family should know that its the nature of his business that he may have to uproot his family in order to keep working. What happens to his family when his contract is up at the end of the season? They'll most likely have to move anyway. Never play the family card, these guys are making far too much money for thst.

you're exactly right. It's too long to keep typing "lack of professionalism", especially when I so clearly outlined the other night EXACTLY what I was speaking of. It's an entire mentality.

The problem with guys like Gramps, Scott, Wilbur, etc., is they cherry pick on things to turn the conversation on me, instead of the focus of the post to begin with (the team). It's not that any of them think that Lee's any good, it's that they think they should automatically disagree with me. That's their prerogative, and unfortunately, that's where we've come to in society as a whole. It's this notion that "if you don't say things I agree with, you shouldn't speak at all"....LOL...isn't that what the progressives think?!?LOL

Aaron....Fail

Your quote

"It's too long to keep typing "lack of professionalism"

Rings a little hollow, You are not know for trying to keep your posts short. (I'm not trying to criticize your posts lengths)

And you have been Personally attacking Hendry, Lou & other Cubs from day one. Thats not cherry picking!!!! Thats a pattern.

Also while I will say sometimes you have very valid points in your posts.... You obviously are very knowledgeable about baseball.

It really turns myself & others off.

Are you satisfied with the team, Scott?

Are you pleased with the job Hendry, Piniella and co. have done with this bunch?

Do you think they are fine, and no changes need be made?

I'm with Aaron all the way. This franchise is beyond pathetic. A major league baseball franchise that has gone 102 years with no world title, and 65 years with no Pennant has run out of excuses, and the "wait until next year" mantra.

I have been a Cub fan for 46 years and I have had it up to hear with the excuses, the furrowed brows, and the hand wringing. It's time for true Cub fans to stand up and say, "ENOUGH!" It's time to demand changes that mean a complete change in philosophy. It's way beyond time.

Hooray for eriesarmy for finally speaking the truth! The time has come for true Cubs fans to take action in exacting change in this morbund franchise. I'm not talking some silly protests such as turning in your season tickets or walking out in the Cubs' half of an inning. The greedy Cubs fans will just snap them up and consider you a sucker. True Cubs fans should organize a boycott of the teams sponsors. When the fans stop buying products, it will hurt everyone where it counts, in the pocketbook (are you listening Mr. Big Toyota sign?). Then management will actually listen to the fans and rebuild this frnchise from the ground up.

I'll agree, some people dont like personal attacks on themselves....

But they are the 1st one's to call players..... Stupid, garbage, loser, ect.... Not Very Classly!!!!

good one....how old are we? Are you 10? 11? I've refrained from attacking others on here, and will continue to do so...you tempt me, but, you're not worth it

I found a way to trade Zambrano and Fukedome. They will have to do it the same way they traded Milton Bradley. First with Z They could trade for Oliver Perez. The Mets won't to get rid of him because they give him a bad contract also. I'm sure the Z's contract is more than Perez and the Cubs will have to pay the difference. I'm not big on Perez but we get rid of Zambrano and maybe like Silva a change of scenery will make a difference. Now Koseke trade him to Houston for Cliff Lee and this time the Astros will have to pay the difference in Lee's contract I'm sure it's more or give a prospect. Then in the offseason get rid of CLee and Perez ......just a thought

Neil,

Thought you and others might enjoy this...just goes to show how good of a player and professional Lilly truly is:

*********************************************

From the Sun-Times:

One American League scout this week said that even if the salaries were the same, he'd rather have Lilly on his staff than Houston's Roy Oswalt, who's also being shopped.

''He's not afraid of anything,'' the scout said. ''The guy's got huge balls.''

******************************************

That pretty much sums up what we'd be missing. But, at the same time, it's trades like this you HAVE to make to retool for the future. You sell high on veterans each and every time you get a chance, much like we should've done last offseason with Lee.

I agree this season is lost so why not trade him and get some prospects. There is no point in keeping him, most likely he will resign next year. If they keep him and offer him arb and he accepts then they get no picks so might as well grab the extra prospects and get him back next year.

Also, Jon Morosi said the Twins are on Lilly's NTC list. So if that's true, how can they be leading?

NTC don't really mean that much this time of year. The reason is, most veterans like Lilly want to go to a contender if their team is not in the race. Even if a team is on the NTC list (like the White Sox, and most AL teams were with Peavy), it doesn't mean anything for that very reason.

However, if you're a loser like Derrek Lee clearly is, and are comfortable playing for one, then the NTC really does matter. In fact, if you approached Lee, Z, ARAM, and Soriano, all players that have NTC clauses, you'd be hard pressed to find a single one of them willing to waive it, even given the current circumstances, because they all have selfish reasons for wanting to stay with the club. They simply have stated they want to "be on the team that finally does it".

Lee is just as delusional as Hendry is, thinking just a few weeks ago that the Cubs were still in it.

I know I already mentioned this last night in a separate post, but this is PRECISELY why we need to go after winners, and hustle guys like Edmonds, Byrd, and DeRosa, and stay away from guys like Soriano and Bradley.

It's going to get VERY ugly next year if we can't unload some of these guys in the last years of their contracts, and even some of the overpriced guys with years left in swaps for other bad contracts like Soriano for Wells or Soriano for Rowand or Zito...that type of thing.

Guys that absolutely HAVE to be gone come August in my humble opinion, need to be:

Lee

Nady

Howry

Theriot

Fontenot

Baker (though might hang onto him for his versatility)

Berg

Grabow (even with a year left)

Fukudome (even with a year left)

Hill

Stevens (he's been up and down, but he's gotta go too)

Lilly (as much as it pains us all to say it, because he's such a consummate professional, and has been one of our most successful pitchers the last 4 years...we can still sign him for less $$ next year at 34 years old, and hope he takes it...we might as well not risk him accepting arbitration, only to see him get $14 million or something)

That's nearly half the team (12 players) that, aside from Lilly, have offered the team absolutely nothing of value this year. Can we get anything in return for them? Probably not, but their "value" to us is their roster spot, which we need for younger players.

Lee, and his sub .400 SLG and 16 GIDP's, Nady and his 7 GIDP's in just 162 plate appearances, and Berg, Grabow, and Howry with the batting practice fastballs they throw up there with no decent secondary pitches, all MUST go. This, again, is evidence of not only the Cubs lack of better player development, but lack of talent evaluation.

They simply would NOT last on another big market team. Look around...even Detroit isn't afraid to cut their losses with underperforming veterans with big salaries. NY certainly isn't either.

The only hope is that one day Ricketts wakes up, and realizes that his family just made an enormous mistake, and they can't pay the bills, and a white knight investor like Mark Cuban comes in to rescue the team. That's the only hope, folks. We are witnessing PK Wrigley all over again with the Ricketts, and the sad thing is, he didn't even seem to care about selling out either, which was most puzzling. Maybe they don't care about it either?

It all starts at the top. If you have a smart owner, you'll have success. Look at the Yankees, Red Sox, Marlins, etc. of recent seasons. They understand when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em, when to retool, and when to add 'em. This has set them up for both long-term and short-term success. If you have a smart owner, it means he'll hire the right people to put the team in the best possible place to win, and those people will make good hires, and so on and so forth.

The Cubs, as has been the case in the past, are operating as if the game is still being played in the early to mid 1900's right now, and it is blatantly obvious by comments Hendry has made regarding his view on stats, advanced scouting, etc. Think that doesn't matter? We're a major market team. How has that worked out for us the last 2 years? Doesn't it seem that nearly every team in the league has surpassed us in scouting, player development, and coaching recently?!?

Hendry operates in the "good 'ole boys network," where "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours", where talent/knowledge doesn't really matter so much as who you know in regards to his hirings, etc.

And sadly, enablers abound in Wrigleyville. Ricketts enables Kenney, who enables Hendry who enables not only Piniella, but also the players, and Piniella certainly enables the players, and the fans enable ALL of them by showing up every single night win or lose, rain or shine....it's a full circle sort of thing, and 99.9% of all sports franchises do NOT have a closed loop like that of enablers. And while you could make the case for the Bulls fans post Jordan there for awhile, at least Krause was forced out, and Paxson brought winning back to the United Center when he hired Skiles.

But I don't think the Ricketts understand and appreciate what they have with this fan base enough to respect the value they bring to the franchise. In fact, I'd argue that the fans alone added about $300 million to the franchise's worth. Am I wrong? If this place wasn't selling out daily, you think it'd be worth $850 million? Hell no! Especially not after 100 years of no championships, and 65 years of NO World Series appearances.

Derek Lee is clearly a loser? Sorry, Aaron, but I don't see it that way. He has earned his right to make his own decision by having a good career. Did you ever think that family considerations could make him want to stay here in Chicago? Maybe he is happy here? He has gone to the pinnacle in his field and we as fans, have no right to ridicule him by calling him a loser.

Aren't the Twins on Lilly's no-trade list? He would have to waive that to go to the Twins. Is that right?

Yes, the Twins are on his no-trade list. But remember he signed his deal before the Twins had a new park.

If Lilly is traded, I'm not getting my hopes up on the return, given what the D-Backs got for Dan Haren. The Cubs mostly are just saving the $5.5 mil; I bet we don't get a prospect back who would be any better than the sandwich pick we'll collect by holding on to him.

The D-Backs got the Angels' #3 starter, a solid Single A prospect, and an MLB ready reliever who, like Joe Saunders, could benefit from the switch from the AL to the NL (and, like Silva, I'm banking on it being a noticeable change).

IDK about that. Haren has been OK this year and the D'Backs did not get a big return as they could because he is owe a lot of money.

I see no reason to trade Lilly. The players mentioned in the past, who the Cubs might recieve in a trade, are minimal prospects at best. He wants to remain a Cub and has pitched well, even if his win loss record doesn't show it. He has been a mentor to the younger pitchers and is a good citizen. The money saved by moving him at this point isn't worth mentioning compared to other salaries on the team that are paying the dividends that Lilly is returning.