has any consideration been given to indians being an outlet for A TRADE?

CONSIDER A TRADE OF LILLY,HAUFPAUIR,FONTONT AND COLVIN FOR CABRERA AND SIZEMORE.THIS SOLVES 2B.AS WELL AS CENTER.MAYBE ADD MARSHALL TO DEAL

COMMENTS !

1) A good GM would jump at the chance to talk to the Yankees about a Zambrano trade.

2) Anyone who thinks the Yanks would be dumb enough to trade Cano and Cabrera or Gardner for Zambrano should stop posting and start medicating.

3) Zambrano has to be one of the most overpaid players in the game. He's averaged 14 wins per season over his last 5. That's 1 game more than Jason Marquis.

4) At 18 million per for the next 3 years, the salary dump alone has significant value.

5) With Lackey in Boston, Lee in Seattle, and Halladay in Philly, a good GM could take advantage of a small window of opportunity, one where the value of our mercurial "ace" is nearly as inflated as his ego.

6) The right move is to tell the Yankees that you're of a mind to deal and are going to offer him to them and to the Angels. You ask for Hughes from the Yankees and Kendrick from the Angels and then wait for one of them to blink. If the Yankees blink, you swap an $18M 14-game winner with control issues and a nasty temper for a big time talent of 23 with a 3:1 K to BB ratio and a proven ability to pitch under pressure on the main stage. If the Angels blink, you swap that same $18M 14-game winner for a 2B who at 26 already has more than 1,300 big league at-bats with a .302 batting average. By the way, that 2B makes less than $500K, batted .360 in his minor league career, and is projected by more than a few scouts to win a batting title.

7) Jim Hendry is bound to make the wrong move because his focus will be on the little "tweaks" he can make to compete in 2010. His short-term focus is bound to keep the next Cub world series at least a decade away.

That makes too much sense... but point 7 answers the question.

For a decent shot at the playoffs a rebound by Z offers the best upside. Even if he turned it around and made the Yankees or Angels a WS Champ in 2010 your trade and the new start is a no brainer because the Cubs ceiling is a playoff berth...but even if the Yankees or Angels could be tempted into such a decision it will never be known...see point 7

I don't think it will take a decade if the organization starts doing the right things starting with a new GM at the end of the season

I know the Z rumor has already been shot down, but the only way the Cubs should even entertain trading him is...

1)They knew Lilly was going to be alright

2)They knew Samardzija would finally fulfill his promise

3)Cashner was ready

4)Jay Jackson was ready

Even then, you're playing with fire. Face it, a rotation such as: Dempster, Lilly (when he comes back), Wells, Gorzelanny, and Silva/Marshall/Samardzija/Jackson/Cashner/Coleman would be downright scary (not in a good way)

Wells could be exactly like Soto (one year wonder), while we all know Samardzija is confounding, Silva is pleasantly plump and should not be allowed anywhere near an MLB rotation next year, and the rest are question marks, save for Dempster. Lilly is an injury problem, and might not be back until May I'm hearing, and Gorzelanny, IMO will never approach the sub 4 ERA barrier again as a starter.

So, as much as Z makes us shake our heads sometimes, he has, by far, the most ability in our entire organization (minors included) aside from maybe Carlos Marmol. He's about as irreplaceable as they get, so unless you're getting a Felix Hernandez or Josh Johnson type in return, it's not worth it to trade him

lol jw...that's why I have to use the quotation marks!

Is everyone spelling "ace" wrong

You know...I've always liked Big Z, even though he is a head case. But, if we can trade him and make the team better this year and for the future, then I am all for it. I just don't like the idea of Hendry being the one doing the trading...we've got to maximize our return if we're gonna trade our "Ace".

I do not think this is Cubs' related ... but found interesting.

Buster Olney just tweeted he has heard the Yankees are working hard on a deal tonight for a starting pitcher.

Neil:

Do you think Cashman is interested in Silva?

Something is going down with the Yankees... my twitter account is lighting up.

Kinda like a Christmas tree ... sorry could not help it.

Interesting. I wonder if they'll make a big splash and deal Joba, Hughes and Montero for Greinke or Josh Johnson. Or if it's going to be a salary dump deal for an Arroyo, Harang or Lowe type.

Rosenthal tweeted it is not Harang. Heyman tweeted the same and said it does not appear to be Zambrano ... but he pointed out the Yankees talked to the Cubs about him.

Rosenthal tweeted it is a trade ... not a free agent signing.

We could only hope ... thanks for the laugh. That's the best one I've heard all day.

Gardner has speed and is left handed so we can bring back Jognson as well. A platoon of Gardner and Johnson would be ideal for me.

How about Dempster instead?

The Cubs never should have resigned The Dumpster after he choked in Game 1 of the 2008 playoffs.

Of if they need a DH, Soriano & Lots of cash.

I doubt Cano would be available for anything we'd be willing to offer.

Gardner & Cabrera don't seem to impress me on paper, but I could be wrong. I'd rather see them in CF than the 245lb Marlon Byrd no matter how good he can hit. I'm afraid Byrd will turn into another DH, which we already have plenty of & we aren't even a d@mn AL team.

Johnson is the one pitcher I would covet now....But I don't see him going anywhere

until maybe the trade deadline this summer.

Woody34....mark my words...Bedard is done....He'll be worse than Silva.

All the stuff we heard about Milton...

and there was barely a peep re Seattle and Silva...I think one mild rumor a couple of months ago.

When Z goes a-traveling it'll happen quick without a lot of pre-fanfare.

Who are the Angels looking at to replace

Lackey??? There's a greater need there...and they also have the $$$$.

SuzyS,

I know you've been saying Bedard is done. What makes you say that? I confess I don't know too many details with respect to Bedard's injury, but I read something today where someone in the industry said Bedard has a better chance to contribute in 2010 than Harden.

David F. This would take me some research...but I liked Bedard a lot and started to research him last summer through the Seattle web sight and branching off to some of the Seattle blogs.

One of the blogs I read related directly to the type of surgery Bedard had.

It impressed me:

a) as a believable source (medical person)

b)as an unbelievable challenge for Bedard to be effective again.

What stood out is that of the 35 sport cases that had Bedard's type of surgery...

only 1 was every able to come back and be semi effective again. 1 out of 35 is horrible.

Now, I have a very limited amount of time on the net just now...last summer...I put out5 the linkl to this report. Perhaps you could be a kind gentleman and do the supporting search on Bedard and his medical info re type of surgery etc...

It would have initally been written mid summer...

I'm at the library just now and have to0 go...but this IS based on a factual report.

Thanks in advance to anyone that can find that link for me ....re Bedard.

I looked around a bit and couldn't find the article you mentioned. The stuff I did read seemed to be all over the board on when he'd return and the liklihood of his success. He had labrum surgery which I read has had mixed results.

Thanks for checking David...I'll try to refind that article over the next several days...I don't usually like to make broad statements without supporting evidence.

To the people that want to give the team to youth.

We did that when we gave the starting job in left to Matt Murton and the staring ss position to Cedeno. We ended up in last place that year.

murton hit .299 that year

The Yankees are the one team I am sure Mr Ego Zambrano would waive his no trade clause. Now this rumor will be denied for awhile, because if Hendry is thinking about this deal, he will have to find a pitcher somewhere to replace Z. Whether this becomes another 3 team deal or two separate trades, I believe there are 2 obtainable pitchers that would fit in nicely with the Cubs rotation.

1. Josh Johnson, even though they say Florida will wait til the break.

2. Brandon Webb, he will be cheaper now than at the break.

With the money saved in trading Zambrano, you can sign either to an extension and go sign one of Sheets, Duchsherer, or Bedard and hope they turn out a decent season.

From the Yankees you get Cano plus whatever player in their system that the DBacks or Marlins covet.

Marlins turned down Feliz and Smoak for Johnson. That is a far better package than even Castro and Vitters. We don't have the players to deal for Johnson even if we made our whole system available.

That's why you acquire a diamond prospect from the Yankees in the Zambrano deal and package him along with Soto and others for Johnson.

Yanks won't give you Montero, Joba or Hughes for Z under any circumstances (the only guys Florida could conceivably want in a Johnson package). And even if you did get one of those, you'd still need to add Castro and Vitters to top the Rangers package. Webb is more attainable ... Castro plus a couple other could get him given that this is his last year and he's coming off an injury. But I think the price is too high for the Cubs given Webb's risk ... maybe at midseason if we're in the hunt and Webb is healthy.

So with Zambrano's ability, he is not worth a top prospect?? We just saw Edwin Jackson and Curtis Granderson get traded for top prospects within organizations. I believe Zambrano has more value than Edwin Jackson. Zambrano would shine in New York, sliding into the #2 spot in the rotation behind CC and that offense. He could probably win 20 games.

You package Zambrano and Fontenot for Cano and Joba/Montero the Yankees shouldn't even hesitate.

Brandon Webb can be had on the cheap now, his value will only increase as the season moves along. I still believe Soto is the package to build around for pitching. There was the rumor that Heath Bell was going to be a Cub for Soto. Which means if there was any truth to that at all, that Hendry is actually considering the option to trade Soto.

Suzy,

I wasn't necessarily saying Bedard would be the best choice, just giving a cheap option along with Duchsherer or Sheets.

A rotation:

Webb

Sheets

Lilly

Dempster

Wells

Thats a contending rotation.

Lineup:

Theriot/Fukudome

Cano

Lee

Ramirez

Ankiel

Soriano

Fukudome/Theriot

Hill/W. Castillo

Pither

Still need a backup corner infielder, and a right handed hitting outfielder. With Zambrano's contract gone, you figure will take at least 10 million a year to extend Webb, Ankiel about 4 million, still leaves about 8 to 9 million for bench/bullpen.

Edwin Jackson at his salary of about $5 million is significantly more valuable than Z at $18 million ... its not even close. I think the Yanks would hang up on JH with that trade proposal. I sure would if I was the Yanks' GM.

Woody, I agree that Z should bring top guys back...but his contract is prohibitive...to bring the best returns...

I also believe Z should be traded for payroll relief...but realistically...

Z will probably have to pitch to contract (Ace level) for at least half a seasonh before we copuld realize proper value.

Jason Marquis to the Nats per Buster Olney ... 2yrs and $15 million

Neil:

Contracts given are still generous.

Marquis, Cameron et all

Many posters here say JH is the worst GM in the league and note his free agent signings as evidence. (the Marquis signing has been noted as one of those deals). It seems other GM's are making similar deals as Marquis just signed for about the same annual salary as JH signed him for 3 years ago. So if you think JH is "stupid", then many other GM's must be "stupid" as well.

I think JH is a very average GM when is comes to free agent signings. Many other GM's make the same types of decisions he has. It's very easy to be critical of his signings for the number of years and dollar amounts, but the posters here have no idea of what it would take to sign free agents. IF JH made no signings, he'd be criticized for doing nothing. The horrific Bradley signing is the exception (if JH had waited, better deal like Abreu and Dunn would have been out there). But the Lilly, Soriano, Marquis, Dempster and other free agent signings were comparable to other free agent signings of comparable players at the time.

David F....I have no issue with JH 's Marquis signing and feel it is a poor

example. 2 years at 15 million is a lot less then the 3rd year at 10 JH had him at.

You have to look at JH's RECENT body of work to get an idea of HIS UTTER FAILURE.

Let's throwout Soriano...McDonough shares culpability.

Let's throwout Bradley...The whole world

knows how bad that has come out.

Let's look a Mcgehee/Aaron Miles/

Marquis for Vizcaino (So he could afford

Bradley)

DeRo for 3 average arms???? Gaub,Stevens, and I forget.

With a team that has no power...why is Brad Snyder not on the team in front of Colvin???

Why did Aaron Miles command the 4.7 mil

over 2 years when the Cards would only go year to year?

Why did Bradley's contract only require

75 games to vest for tjhe third year whenj a season consists of 162 games?

(Who wrote that contact anyway? Milton's mother?

David F. stop apologizing for Hendry...

Milton is the worst PR Debacle in Cubs History...years of futility...and JH was responsible for it...that alone should send him packing for the pony leagues...

or perhaps Ricketts should trade JH to Seattle so he can be reunited with his favorite headache.

Here you go...you TELL the Yankees and Steinbrener that you want either Jeter or A-rod on the table and we will add Zambrano along with some more guys(possibly prospects. Get some BALLS Henry!

Then if we get A-Rod or Jeter, there's our SS and move Theriot to 2ND. Bat them 2nd or 3rd, then we're in business.

Cano would be our two or three hitter no doubt that guy is just plain sick as a hitter.

I agree with your premise, Rich, but the Cubs were never "handcuffed" into signing Z et al to bad contracts. You make it sound like they didn't have the option to trade players or negotiate reasonable contracts or the ability to find good young talent to trade for...yes, the farm hasn't always been loaded with talent, but I'd say the things that has handcuffed them is the lack of a creative GM coupled with terrible ownership.

This is a good read from Kaplan re: Cub's recently past spending and current problem.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/david-kaplan-chicago-sports/2009/12/how-the-cubs-payroll-got-to-140-million.html

Until the Cubs decide its time to change their thinking on how to run/build an organization, we are doomed to repeat this "sky is falling" outlook every off season. Why is it that every off season the Cubs look at high priced free agents and feel the need to over spend. Just look at a few of the deals recently. Both Soriano and Bradley were given too many years and Fuku was given too much money. The problem wasn't these players but that the cubs had no other options. No farm system has killed them for years and this off season is no different. I would much rather be excited about someone like Colvin playing cf then Marlon Byrd. Now I am not saying we rush these players up, but the A's survived on a small market budget for years because they had interchangeable pieces. When guys like Zito, Giambi and Damon got too expensive the A's were able to reload. Z should never have been given that crazy a contract, but the cubs were handcuffed and had no options.

My question is this though, why trade Z's contract when the cubs will just put that money back into the next Bradley or Hundley or Fukudome contract.

Ahh...so it there is an interest out there. I've always thought that the Yanks would entertain offers re: Z, and now they've come asking. I've posted my thoughts on Z to the Yanks more than a couple times over the last month or two. I said that once all the dominant power pitchers were signed with other teams, the time is right for Hendry to work with the Yanks.

My main point to trading Z is for the Cubs to release themselves from one of their many bad contracts and free up considerable money for this year and the next 2. Even if, as some of you have argued here, the Cubs have to send some cash with him - they could send 4M$ per and be freeing up 14M$ - it would worth it, to me. 14M$ per. That was Halladay. Or Lee. Or Lackey.

Hendry could approach this a couple ways, he could treat this like they are trading one of the premier, young, power pitchers in the game (coming off a bad year, of course) and ask way too much. Or he could look at it as a way to free up a bunch of cash and by not seek a load of talent in return, thus not have to eat so much money. If CF is the most pressing need, surely the Yanks would send Melky over for Z, or Gardner and a couple prospects. They can say what they want, but neither of those guys are in the Yankees plans for this year. Cano is not going to happen.

The problem is, Hendry and the Cubs are looking at this team and hoping like hell for the well talked about "bounce back" of a number of players, Z being one of them. So all of their plans for success and winning this year are reliant on Z (and many others) greatly improving altogether, all at once. This is why Hendry will not trade Z. But why he really should. One more 12-9 season filled with childish antics and suspensions and the Cubs are guaranteed to have another 18M$ albatross for a couple more years.

This is exactly the time to swallow hard and pull the trigger. I am sorry I don't remember who posted on the other string about how the Cubs never make these moves, but this is the perfect opportunity. When the Yankees come asking about your "ace" it is time to get serious.

But trading Z would be admitting to a "rebuild". And Hendry will NOT do that. Not while his job depends on this season. The ironic thing is, he doesn't have a chance as the team stands now.

It's really too bad. This is a great opportunity. I am done with Zambrano, I wish we could move on. And move up.

With everyone complaining about the lack of a true number one starter its really shocking to see how many of you are so willing to trade the closest thing to that number one starter...You do realize the Cubs may as well give up the 2010 season all together by getting rid of Z without signing/trading for a top of the line starter. Lilly will be starting the season hurt, Dempster is a solid 2-3, no really knows what to expect from Wells and Gorzelanny, Samardzija, Marshall, and Silva are all #5 starters and no better (at this point).

I just cant see us trading Zambrano at this point period, the walls would cave in at about month two of the season when 3 of every 5 starts is made by one of those number 5 starters (I shudder just thinking about it, no thanks)

Totally agree.

Doesn't Zambrano have a "no trade" clause? He would not want to go to the American League, he would not be able to bat....

I agree the NL central is fairly weak and even. But I would do Z for Gardner and Cano. I live in New York and so I'm privy to all the sports radio about the yanks, and these two are young studs who could really flourish in the NL. Getting rid of Z would give the Cubs a lot of cash to work with as they begin to rework their rotation. But hey, I do think the Cubs still have a solid chance in their division in 2010 should they start the year as is. However, I don't see them as much of a post-season prospect.

I think we only need a 1 year solution in centerfield. What about Colvin or Jackson to take over centerfield in 2011? I would not be opposed to just giving the job to Colvin this year. Platoon with Reed Johnson?? I mean isn't that what we would be doing with Melky and Brett Gardner at the expense of maybe Zambrano??? They are not proven players yet either.. Just a thought...

I've grown tired of Z over the last year or 2.....BUT, if you are going to trade him, you had better get some pitching back. That deal wouldn't do it.

No way I make that trade. Think of the rotation after that deal.

Plus, to be honest, everyone here keep swriting off next yeaar as if we have no chance, which I don't understand.

Every year is different, don't underestimate the power of the "wake up call" that has been served to guys like Soriano, Soto, and Z after this year. Reports seem to suggest they are all working their tails off this winter, which is encouraging.

And who in that divsion scares you ? The cardinals will be weaker. They may get Holliday back, but they'll lose Derosa and Pinero. And Ryan Franklin had his career year, he ain't that good.

Yes, every year is different. But the problem with this is that in order to win, the Cubs are fully dependent on Soriano, Zambrano AND Soto to post production at least on level with 2008 and/or 2007. All of them. Not one of them, not even 2 outta 3. Then they need a miracle at 2B.

I am tired of hearing about how they are all "working their tails off". Isn't being in shape and healthy like #1 on the job description of professional athlete? This shouldn't be such wonderful news. It is expected.

And finally, basing the Cubs chance of success on their division rival's chance of failure is not really all that encouraging. In fact, none of this is all that encouraging.

IF IF the Cubs somehow had the chance to land a 25 year old Melky or even Gardner, I would NOT not do it because Tyler Colvin is in AA. Would it be so bad to move on over to RF have two or someday (san Soriano) three young guys in the OF all at once? I know, that is impossible for a Cub fan to even fathom.

I would love for the cubs to have all young guys in the OF. But, let me wake you up from your dream with a hard dose of reality.

First off, Colvin is not that good, so don't get your hopes up there. Secondly, Brett Jackson is at least 2 years away. Thirdly, NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE is going to take Soriano and Fuku with those contracts, so you're stuck with them for the forseeable future. Melky would be nice, but I'm not giving up my ace for him. That's ludicrous. Even if you throw in Cano, you can't do that.

So we can sit here and write till we're blue in the face about this and that, but that's the reality.

And yes, I do not disagree with you that these guys (soto, Z, Sori) should be in shape every year and that's part of their job. But again, let me bring you into the real world. It's human nature for guys to take their "foot off the pedal" a little when they have the security of a long term deal. I'm NOT SAYING THAT I CONDONE THAT, but's the unfortunate reality. They aren't the first to do that, and they won't be the last. Again, I'M NOT MAKING EXCUSES for them. It's part of the reason I wish they could dump these guys, but they can't, they are stuck.

One other thing that people seem to forget. They did win 83 games with a ton of injuries and underacheivemnent. Are you telling me this team can't win 6 or 7 more games to get to 90 if a couple guys come back to their normal averages ? Come on. I don't get it.

y do we need both melky and gardner? both CF's. Unless you tell Fukodome that you are the odd man out and put Melky in right. That is too many outfielders. What about Cano and Gardner for Z and 3million in cash? Then a rotation of:

Rotation:

Dempster

Lilly

Wells

Gorzelanny

Silva,Marshall,Smardgiza

Lineup:

Gardner (CF)

Fukodome (RF)

Lee (1B)

Rameriez (3B)

Soriano (LF)

Cano (2B)

Soto (C)

Theriot (SS)

Pitcher (P)

I said Melky OR Gardner, not both. Cano and Gardner for $3 million and Z is still way too much for Z. I could see Gardner (without Cano) for Z plus $3 million per year of Z's salary.

As an aside, read some of the Yankee fan boards ... most of them don't want Z ... even if we offered him to them for free and just had them pay his salary!

Gardner and Cano might be what JH is asking for ... which is way too much for Z given his current contract. Yanks might do Z and cash for Melky or Garnder.

I told everyone yesterday that Zambrano to the Yanks for Cabrera and cash. We should honestly lower our asking price for Z and ask for Gardner and Cano. Or one better, trade Z for Gardner, Cashner and Girardi!!!!! Come Home JOE.........

As much as I really like Z and always rooot for him to do well as a Cub. For some reason if the Yanks were to approve of a Melky, Gardner and Cano deal, I would have to tip my hat the Z and wish him luck.

Very intriguing stuff. I love me some Zambrano, but the Yankees have a pretty healthy system. Could he command a Cabrera/Gardner AND Cano? I would approve that one.