The 2008 NL Rookie of the Year is coming off a horrible season but is Jim Hendry shopping his catcher?
According to a report from Baseball Prospectus on the eve of the GM Meetings in Chicago, "Catching has become an increasingly difficult position for teams to fill, yet there are some interesting names floating as trade possibilities : the Pirates' Ryan Doumit, the Rays' Dioner Navarro, the Rangers' Jarrod Saltalamacchia and the Cubs' Geovany Soto."
Geovany Soto had a solid September in 2007 and put up a .426/.462/.745 line with six doubles and three home runs in 16 games ... and pretty much names himself Lou Piniella's starting catcher for 2008.
All Geovany Soto did in 2008 was become the first rookie to start for the National League in the Mid-Summer Classic on his way to becoming the NL Rookie of the Year.
Soto's line in 2008 ... .285/.364/.504/.868 with 35 doubles, two triples, 23 home runs and 86 RBI in 141 games.
But Soto showed up to camp last spring out of shape, spent time in the World Baseball Classic and went back to his team in even worse condition than when he first reported in February.
Geovany Soto struggled mightily in his second full season in the big leagues, even losing time to Koyie Hill. Soto dealt with injuries, a positive test for marijuana use at the WBC and spent time on the DL all while answering questions about a sophomore slump all season.
Soto finished the year with a horrible line of .218/.321/.381/.702 with 19 doubles, one triple, 11 home runs and 47 RBI ... and he seemed to take several steps back defensively as well.
Reports after the end of the season indicated Geovany Soto would work out with Ryan Dempster in Chicago starting in January to prepare for the 2010 season ... so could the Cubs be looking to move Soto?
Koyie Hill looks to return in 2010 and Welington Castillo is hitting the ball in limited time in the AFL. Reportedly Castillo made strides defensively in 2009 while his offensive took a step back. Castillo is hitting .357 with a .438 OBP (5-for-14) in four games with the Mesa Solar Sox.
Welington Castillo should be added to the Cubs' 40-man roster before the November 20 deadline.
Outside of Castillo, the Cubs have Steve Clevenger in the system. Clevenger had a good year with the I-Cubs. Clevenger's line in 2009 with the Smokies and I-Cubs ... .290/.344/.378/.722 with 16 doubles, four triples and one home run in 94 games. Both Steve Clevenger and Welington Castillo were non-roster invitees to Spring Training last season.
Stay Tuned ...
Soto was not impressive last season offensively OR defensively.
The pitchers actually performed better with Hill behind the plate...But Hill is strictly a backup.
That being said...Soto still has potential and we would be selling low with no salary relief....(unless he is a key in a package deal with Milton...I don't understand JH's thinking here.
Soto is likely to come in gsngbusters this spring...if Hendry wants to trade him...let him reestablish himself and sell high at the trade deadline.
I wouldn't be surprised if Soto bounces back but if the Hendry could land some talent I'd make the trade.
What a horrible idea. Soto is training this offseason with Dempster. So I expect him to come to ST in great shape and ready to play. JH should concentrate on getting rid of Bradley and Soriano along with getting a leadoff hitter. Aswell as shoring up the rotation and bullpen and a backup 3rd baseman.......oh and some real outfielders.
Jim, If Hendry can get rid of both Soriano AND Bradley...don't leave cookies out for Santa...give him a
private bakery.
It's just not reality...sadly.
Jim, you are right-on with Soto training with Dempster this winter ... supposed to begin in January.
I view this as a rumor only, I do not think Soto is being shopped or will be traded. But when a rumor like this surfaces, I have to run it.
Personally I think he's worth another season to prove himself. Soto can obviously bat and he has shown he can be devastating when he's on, I think the problem with him is his personality and lack of discipline. Hopefully the winter workout with Dempster and a strict regime will mean a return to his All Star form.
as many of you already know, I would LOVE for this to be true. I think Soto is overweight, and as a catcher, that NEVER bodes well for the future. Furthermore, he has the nagging hand issue that will most likely require surgery down the line. You almost have to give it a try to see what you can get for him. Especially with Welington Castillo, Clevenger, Robinson, and even Brenly as options next year or down the road, plus Koyie Hill. You'd have to assume that if they're in bad shape, or unsure, they could go after a Miguel Olivo as a Plan B sort of scenario, and buy W. Castillo more time at AAA. Actually, if I'm Hendry, I try to make this trade:
Bradley, Soto, Marshall, Stevens to the Rays for Burrell and Bradley, and we pay all of Bradley's 2011 salary to make it more worthwhile to them. It's those type of deals that we have to look into in order to offload Bradley. I think it would be a miracle for a team to simply accept a Bradley-bad contract swap straight up. You'd have to entice a team more, and since the Rays are very dissatisfied with Navarro, we might have a good match there, especially with Soto's ROY status.
Aaron...did you mean Bradley,Soto.
Marshall, Stevens for Burrell and Navarro?...or just Burrell?
sorry...i meant for Burrell and BJ Upton
Aaron, what is your thinking on Upton again?...His numbers are not that impressive.....241 Average/11 HRs/55 RBI's/50 + walks/150+ KO's....
2years straight decline in numbers from his high in 2007 of .300 BA/24 homers.
He is young...but his numbers should be increasing...not decreasing....Even if he is great defensively...Pie could have given us those kind if numbers.???
Educate me.
Upton is still very young, and has a TON of speed AND power. Pie appeared to start to put it together last year, but he's also 24, and Upton already has several full years of experience. He's had 2 straight years of 40+ stolen bases, and he's played 2B, SS, 3B, LF, and CF in his career. He also knows how to draw the occasional walk. Pie has all the speed in the world, but he has absolutely no idea how to steal bases well, and that was part of the problem while he was with the Cubs. On the other hand, it's quite clear that Upton knows how to steal bases, and again, he's the same age, and more versatile. That's precisely why I am so enamored with the idea of acquiring him in a trade. The Rays are said to be quite enamored with Desmond Jennings in CF, already love Crawford for LF, have Zobrist for 2B/RF, Bartlett for SS, Longoria for 3B, so there just doesn't appear to be a fit for Upton. It's almost like a Jake Fox sort of situation with us. He's blocked at 3B, LF, and even RF (provided we offload Bradley and find a replacement), so unless he learns a new position (ie.-2B), then doesn't have a prayer of being on this team. Upton, on the other hand, already plays all the positions we need, and though he hasn't played RF yet, I'm pretty confident, given his experience in CF and LF that he'd be able to play RF as well. We need a back-up/starting middle infielder, back-up 3B, CF, and RF, and Upton fills that void. He'd be priceless to this team. He's 10 years young than DeRosa, and faster...Who wouldn't want that?
Now, in all honesty, Bradley, Marshall, Soto, and Stevens might not be enough for both Burrell and BJ Upton. We might have to include a Gaub, Jay Jackson, or Colvin, which I'd be perfectly okay with...(well, maybe not Jackson, but certainly Gaub and Colvin I'd be fine with). I would also include Theriot if necessary, making it: Bradley, Marshall, Gaub, Soto, Colvin, and Theriot for Burrell and Upton. They'd be getting a bad contract swap, an excellent swing man, a former ROY catcher to replace Navarro, and a very solid middle infielder to put at 2B, and transfer Zobrist to RF. It makes a lot of sense on both sides...a 6-for-2 deal helps us with the obvious Bradley-Burrell swap, and the obvious benefit Upton presents to our team...but what you might not realize is it also frees up 3 spots on our 40-man roster (net spots freed up after getting Burrell and Upton---though flipping Burrell would create 4 openings). I love 40 man roster flexibility, and I love protecting your own, which we'd be able to do with that move.
In my opinion, the following players deserve to be added to the 40-man:
Snyder
Dolis
Chirinos
Adduci
Camp
W. Castillo
Gaub
Papelbon
Parker
with Gregg, Johnson, Chad Fox, Harden, and Cotts not expected back, we'd have 5 open slots, bringing it down from 38 to 33. We'd then have tough decisions to make on Fontenot, Heilman, and Miles, which could potentially bring open slots down to a 30-man roster. Protecting Parker, Gaub, and Castillo are virtual givens, so we'd have 7 slots remaining at that point (actually 6, because I think Hendry loves Heilman too much). Bradley gets swapped out for another bad contract, so the net gain is null for the 40-man. Stevens, Mateo, and Patton are also borderline, so that might take us to 9 slots open, even after protecting the mentioned players. This would allow us to protect a few more deserving players like Snyder, Papelbon, Dolis, and Camp, which would take it to 5 open slots. With the 5 slots, we'd have to fill it with a CF, middle infielder, and reliever for the MLB club, thus leaving 2 slots, and we might have to add Cashner or Jackson for the rotation. That means we might have to trade a Jake Fox or Micah Hoffpauir to free up more slots.
When you look at it from that perspective, you can see the difficult decisions that face GM's. Unfortunately for us, virtually everyone I listed will be selected if they're unprotected, simply because they are good talents, and we all know that Hendry rarely makes the right call in these scenarios.
Gaub, Parker, and Castillo speak for themselves based on their performances during the season, and now in the AZFL. Camp is a versatile player with speed tearing up the Mexican league right now, and Snyder is tearing it up too, after doing well this year before his injury, and he's also a former 1st round pick. Adduci has speed, which is always in demand, and Papelbon is like a Sean Marshall, then you have the hard throwing Dolis who really came on this year, and Chirinos, who made the switch this year to catcher, and has been doing really well (he might be the only one not selected if unprotected, simply because he's so new to catching).
Anyway, there's decisions to be made, and if it's a marginal veteran type that Hendry goes after like a Mark Loretta or someone like that, I'd prefer he take a chance on our own homegrown talent at $400k/year instead of $3-5 million/year
Thanks Aaron...I have not really watched Upton...or the Rays that much...So it was hard for me to visualize his worth...given the hard numbers.
I will say....Bradley may thrive down there...given the size of the fan base
and the huge stadium...Old Tropicana Field was the WORST place to see a game in the majors...when I was there in '96.
Bradley would have much more value...production wise...then Burrell.
But it's his mouth that scares people.
This isn't the worst idea in the world depending on what comes back in return. This is the type of creativity Jim Hendry will need to improve this team for 2010 since he will have little opportunity in free agency. Despite his sub-par year, Soto to me still has a plus value in any trade situation. Add to that, that the Cubs have multiple catchers in the pipeline and it is easy to see the thought behind this move.
However, it must and i mean MUST bring back MLB level talent or it is a mistake. There is the risk that Soto continues to struggle so his value could still go down farther, but it is more likely it would increase. That is why MLB talent is necessary in return. I like this as a sign that Hendry is being creative, now we just have to see if he is creative the right way.
I still don't understand why Clevenger or Robinson weren't given an opportunity
last season at Wrigley...anyone have any insight?
I do not think they view Clevenger as being ready. As for Robinson, as I mentioned last season he did not receive an invite to Spring Training, I think if he would have they would have called him up.
I know they really like Welington Castillo. They like his catch and throw abilities and feel like he took a big step forward last year with his defense. What I have seen from him, very strong arm and good behind the plate. His offense took a step back last year. Oneri Fleita continues to compare Castillo to Yadier Molina
IMO Molina is the best in baseball.
So if they feel that way about him...
fine.
JimC...I agree...there are several players I really like on this team...
But not one...including Aram abd Lee...
I wouldn't trade if it really made the team better...but that's the key...who do we get back...and will it really make us better?
I know a there are fans who like Soto and so do I. He was a Huge disappointment last year and if he isn't traded I hope he comes to camp in shape.
But let's face it, In order for this team to get better Hendry has to deal.
Soto and Theriot are our two best position players that he can trade without the no trade clause. He's not going to deal: Soriano, Fukudome, Lee or Ramirez. Oh, if he deals Bradley, unless he looks to take on another bad contract he will have to give up some quality.
Soto goes nowhere--even with an incompetent GM like JHendry. Where are the Cubs going to pick up a catcher with 23 HR potential? Hill doesn't have a bat. And nobody in the minors is ready. Soto ain't agoin' nowhere, imho.
I dunno....I wonder if this is Hendry's way of making SURE that Soto works out with Demp, and does it with gusto.
I still think Soto has the chops to be a great catcher. But he has to prioritize, and discipline himself. It's still possible.
THE TOM AND JERRY SHOW...ACT I TOMORROW.
Jerry to Tom: The mayor and I would like to welcome you ro the great City of Chicago kid. ...I understand you and your GM have a little problem.
Tom to Jerry: How So?
Jerry: Bad PR...and tough to trade...I once had one of those...his name was Albert Belle....course he COULD hit...
unlike your Bradley dude.
Tom: What did you do?
Jerry: Da mayor made him an offer he couldn't refuse...He left town with
arthritis...and was happy to do so....
Anything I or Da Mayor can do for you?
Tom: Will you trade GM's?
Jerry: ????
Stay tuned for the ongoing saga of
Tom and Jerry.
OK...several here have made comments about Jim Hendry and this rumor....but nowhere is Jim Hendry's name attached to the rumor. Doesnt say he is shopping Soto, Doesnt say he leaked Soto's name, Doesnt say word one about Jim Hendry...this is merely a RUMOR that Neil passed on. The RUMOR just says that Soto's name was tossed around as one of the possibly available catchers. It doesnt say that Jim Hendry mentioned Soto could be available.
Soto is not going anywhere. Perhaps someone out there thought the Cubs might deal him because of the disappointing season last year. I think Soto will bounce back from it and be just fine. But there is no way that with the other holes that need to be filled you create another need as well. Koyie Hill is not the answer and there is nobody in the wings for a couple years.
I think Soto was humbled by what happened last year and I expect him to rally nicely this year. Nice to have a teammate like Dempster looking out for their batterymate. I see a bounce back season which is one of the players we need to see that from.
I don't think people were saying this was definitely happening or that Jim Hendry was out there trying to push Soto onto someone. It is just that Soto is one of the few easily tradeable pieces the Cubs have (by which I mean he is cheap, has talent, and no no-trade clause). This is why it is not impossible to believe that Hendry has made it known for the right return someone can have Soto.
I, like you, think Soto has a very good shot at bouncing back, but that doesn't mean he can not be moved to make this team better. Hendry may feel that move is necessary and depending on what comes back, it could very well be the right thing to do.
I just dont see how moving Soto could possibly help the team. Who's gonna step in? Hill full time? Is Soto going to bring another catcher in return? I just can't see any scenario that trading Soto makes the team better. At best it would just move the need from one position to another.
I understand your point, but you can't say it would not help the team when it is unknown what would be coming back to us. For example, say Soto is part of a package that brings in a relatively young leadoff hitter or CF or quality 2nd baseman. At this point, i could see that being more beneficial going into the season than Soto.
As for who steps in, who knows. You are right when you say trading Soto probably only moves a hole rather than filling one, but it may be easier or more appealing to find a stop gap Catcher til one of the prospects are ready.
Now all this is speculation, but i am just saying that i understand how moving Soto may improve the Cubs. It all depends on what comes back in return.
I can understand that Soto had a bad season, but I think that had to do with him thinking this year would be easy for him after his Rookie of the year campaign. I dont doubt that after a wake up call season he will do what he has to do this off season to get back to form. I feel it is worth a shot for one more season to see what he can do. He has already done it once in the big leagues unlike Castillo, Clevenger,and Robinson. Besides, why would anyone give us anything good in return for someone whom did not produce this year? I dont think we have a better option right now and we have other problems to fix before making this one another gaping need.