Did the trade of Javier Vazquez by the White Sox provide a market for Jason Marquis? Many feel Jim Hendry must move Jason Marquis and the $9.875 million he is owed for next season in order to clear space in the budget to add Jake Peavy and his contract to the Cubs rotation. Marquis would be a reliable fifth starter in any rotation, including the Cubs, but they apparently have their sights set on adding Jake Peavy....along with a left-handed bat.
With only four shopping days before the Winter Meetings, here's updates from the mill on Milton Bradley, Jake Peavy, Kerry Wood and Jason Marquis....as well as an addition to Jim Hendry's staff.
Updated - 8:03am C.T. - Khalil Greene Traded to the Cardinals
Jake Peavy
Are the Cubs still talking to the Padres or have they moved on? It really depends on which members of the mainstream media you wish to believe. Here's why, all of these quotes appeared in various reports on Wednesday....
- Bruce Miles - "The Cubs still are interested in Peavy, but they're willing to wait."
- The New York Post - "At this moment, the only team that the Padres are talking to about Peavy is the Cubs."
- Jayson Stark from ESPN - "It's funny how none of the Jake Peavy-to-the-Cubs rumors these days seem to be originating on the North Side of Chicago. In fact, one Cubs official told a source that they consider their talks with the Padres to be not active at the moment."
- Tim Brown from Yahoo Sports - "Despite reports to the contrary, the Cubs remain engaged in talks to acquire Jake Peavy from the Padres."
- New York Daily News - "According to sources, the Braves have all but ended talks with San Diego about Jake Peavy, as have the Cubs."
According to a report from Baseball Prospectus, the Orioles "are willing to help broker a deal" with the Padres that would allow the Cubs to acquire Jake Peavy. The Orioles asking price from the Cubs has increased from Baltimore only receiving Felix Pie in return to now include Ronny Cedeno.
But did a report from the New York Post on Wednesday shed a little light on the three-team deal? According to the Post, "the expectation is that Khalil Greene will be moved even before the Winter Meetings start in Las Vegas on Monday." The Post's sources did not "divulge to which team", "but the Orioles and Cardinals are among a small group of clubs that are working hard to find a shortstop."
Could Khalil Greene be involved in the Jake Peavy trade? The Padres tried to trade Greene to the Orioles for Garrett Olson and the Orioles wanted more.... Or have the Cardinals landed Greene? A late report from the Post indicated that Greene could be headed to St. Louis.....but the Post is the only source for this deal as of this writing. Stay tuned...
Tim Brown reported that a Padres source said "the club had uncovered two teams which could provide the players to complete a trade." Brown stated the Orioles appear to be one of the teams, but did not reveal the other club.
Jason Marquis
According to a report on FOX Sports.com using the Star Ledger as its source, stated "the Mets had talks with the Cubs about a deal that would send Aaron Heilman to Chicago for right-hander and New York native Jason Marquis." The Cubs were willing to pay some of Marquis' salary according to the report, "but the Mets passes because they're trying to include Heilman in other deals." The report mentioned Marquis "seems more likely to end up in Cincinnati, Colorado or Arizona, if anywhere."
Milton Bradley
Bruce Miles asked the question on Wednesday, 'How about Milton Bradley for the Cubs?' Before Miles made his case for the Cubs signing Bradley, he took a trip down memory lane and brought up the rumored meeting between Dusty Baker and Milton Bradley three years ago. Many did not want the controversial outfielder added to the Cubs roster then, but the tune has changed on the North Side and Bradley mellowed a little last season.
Miles served up Bradley's great numbers from last year (.321/.436/.563/.999 with 32 doubles and 22 home runs in 126 games) and pointed out Bradley's .999 OPS led the American League. Bradley made $5.25 million in 2008 and was offered arbitration by the Rangers. Miles thinks Bradley will receive a big raise but could still be more affordable than Raul Ibanez and Bobby Abreu.
The problem with Milton Bradley has always been Milton Bradley. Miles said that Lou Piniella "gets paid the big bucks to manage the clubhouse, and he does a pretty good job of it. With guys like Derrek Lee, Mark DeRosa, Geovany Soto, Ted Lilly and Ryan Dempster already there, Bradley should have no problems, and nor should the Cubs."
All valid points....
Kerry Wood
According to a report by Ken Rosenthal, the Cardinals "are not ruling out a pursuit of a closer such as Brian Fuentes or Kerry Wood if the glut of closers start to produce free-agent bargains." The Cardinals have been rumored to be interested in Kerry Wood since the Cubs traded for Kevin Gregg.
Louie Eljaua
Jim Hendry added Louie Eljaua, a longtime scout, to his staff on Wednesday according to a report from Cubs.com. Eljaua (pronounced el-HOW-ah) will assist in all areas of international, pro and amateur scouting. Eljaua has 17 years of big league experience and spent the last 5 years as a special assistant to the general manager in Pittsburgh.
Adam Dunn
According to Ken Rosenthal, the Braves, Nationals and Mariners "are among the teams interested in Adam Dunn" according to his sources. The Cubs and Dunn have been mentioned in passing this off-season, but not of late.
Quote from the San Diego Union-Tribune:
"The Cubs, whose payroll reportedly is busting at the seams, may not have the money to add Peavy, who is guaranteed $11 million next season and $63 million over the next four years. They also have less talent to offer than Atlanta did in recent weeks. Nor do the pitching-rich Cubs especially need Peavy, yet they remain potential dealmakers if GM Jim Hendry can figure out how to make the dollars match and offer enough pitching in return. Don't count him out. He is one of the more creative GMs, and he and Padres GM Kevin Towers have made several trades with one another."
Well, that's the latest...and I'm sticking to it!
Update - According to a report from the San Diego Union-Tribune, the Padres have traded Khalil Greene to the Cardinals for two pitching prospects. The deal of Greene to the Cardinals could have an impact on the Padres dealing Jake Peavy.
Two quotes from the Union-Tribune of note:
"The move could improve the club's chances of retaining ace pitcher Jake Peavy or gaining leverage in trade talks involving Peavy, who is guaranteed $11 million next year and $63 million over the next four years."
"Utility man Luis Rodriguez replaced Greene last season, but the Padres may look to find a full-time shortstop to replace Greene."
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Aaron Heilman or Kerry Wood????? Trade MArquis for prospects. We are in need.
I look at the Greene trade as pushing us closer to a deal. I see no way Jake pitches for San Diego any longer after all this. Plus, fact is they have said from the start they wanted BOTH salaries off the books. In addition, Luis Rodriguez was ok from what I watched last year....but I would think they's much rather have Ronny Cedeno.....
Joe S I agree, I do think this opens the door for Cedeno in S.D. and this trade will probably get done, unless something else pops up on JH's radar sooner.
This is going to be interesting to see how JH plays this all out. I am a little unsure about signing anyone from the Abreu/Ibanez/Bradley/Dunn group, I tend to believe a top of the order bat/speed is a higher priority.
Anyone have thoughts on the Heilman rumor? Anyone know his salary for '09?
I also see this trade as a plus for the cubs that means that san diego can focus more on trading peavy at the winter meetings starting monday and not worry about green i hope that we land peavy and im with trading away vitters plus what ever other players for peavy because we got this two year window and those prospects are not going to help us in the next two years or maybe never and of all they players still being mentioned for right field i still perfer dunn 40 plus home runs and batting third would be a great line up
GO CUBBIES
Heilman is in the "year to year avoiding arbitration" part of his carrer.
He's singed for 2008 for $1.2M
I also feel the same uncertainty around the "lefty sluggers" group. Of them I'd prefer Ibanez, but probably not for the money he'll command on the market.
I'd rather have a leadoff guy too... but the only player that fits what we need right now appears to be Brian Roberts... and we all know how that goes LOL
Everything is dependent on the budget... and you can't have every player you target every offseason.
If the season started today, would I like the roster as it is? Pretty much. I think the big need is in the bullpen right now.
After that, a power hitting, lefty-hitting right fielder. Internally, I'd like to see Hoffpauir and Fontenot platoon as the lefty bat that they need. Hoff in RF -or- Dero in RF and Fonty at 2B. Fuk and Pie can be used if a speedy lineup is wanted. Externally, why not give Edmonds another shot? After that, I like Abreu and Griffey. Although Abreu had a bad rep in Philly as a loafer and as being selfish. I don't know if that has changed in NY.
I don't think SP is a need for the Cubs, but it sure would be great to have Peavy. But if it's gonna cost the farm, then get the Big Unit instead.
Bullpen: Why aren't the Cubs chasing Beimel? And I'd welcome Ohman back too.
Eddy...I believe this is the second time you've referenced this critical "two year window". Where is that coming from? We've been hearing this "win now" mentality for several years now.
Any good organization wants to "win now" but without sacrificing the long term viability of the franchise.
Bryan, here is the link from the Tribune that I passed along with the 'two year window' quote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-01-cubs-chicagodec01,0,842790.story
and here's the article:
http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2008/12/newsrumors1202.php#more
Thanks for the info on Heilman Gary.
I have always been hesitant of Ibanez but I do like what I have read about his durability and character.
I have always been a fan of Abreu and felt like he was underrated for a while in his career, but I believe he will cost too much considering his age. His carrer numbers are great and he has played a full load the past couple years if I am not mistaken.
I really would not mind seeing Fontenot/Derosa/Hoff carry the load at 2nd/Right with Reed/Fuku in CF if needs be. I think those guys are more than capable.
I agree that the only real speed/top of the order guy that may be available and meets our needs is Roberts. I really don't want to go after Furcal with the recent injury history. Any other top of the order, speed guys, that play outfield or 2nd base (possibly SS depending on future deals made) out there???
Looks like the Cards just picked up Greene for Mark Worrell and a PTBNL ... great deal for them. Khalil could have quite a year in St. Louis ... I could see .270 with 25-30HR. I wish we had picked him up. Hopefully this leads to a Peavy deal for us ... Vitters, Olsen (via the Orioles for Pie), Marshall, and Cedeno seems fair.
And bat left-handed??? Ideas anyone?
Fellow Great Creatures,
I deeply and madly agree that Jason Marquis is not a top pitcher. He is alright sometimes, but not that good. I hope you get something for him if he goes.
The signing of Kevin Gregg was a great deal for the Cubs. I wished he would have stayed with the Marlins. He is serious and hard working. He gets the job done most of the time and when he fails, he works even harder. I like his glasses. He should bring worry to hitters.
Living in Miami, I know how it feels to win a World Series. Please do not take this as a rub in. I know when the Cubs have their victory parade one day, Chicago will be exuberant. It'll be worth it. I honestly believe the Cubs have the best team in the Nation League on paper. Unfortuately, games are played on the field.
My bellen viewic belief system will allow Cub fans to migrate with me as a great creature should. The earth is full of Cub lovers and Cub haters and people inbetween. Life is not fair, I know.
I hope you get Jake Peavy. He is one of the best pitchers in baseball. He's young and has plenty of time to improve his game. If you get Peavy, the Cubs should rank amongst the leaders in ERA with their good starting pitching. I believe that your closer will either be Marmol or Gregg. Either way, the Cubs are looking for a good season. I hope Fuku gets his hitting figured out so the offense will be better than expected.
I love you and wish you enlightenment to all the Cub supporters whether the Cubs are champions this year or not. Fanatics should always support their team even if they are fanatics for the Pirates or Nationals.
I wish your group toys all during 2009.
It's my pleasure to inform this to you, you super creatures.
I love you Matt Haggard! That was great words you said to me last week. I hope the picture of that bald man in your logo was not you. You are a beautiful creature to me bald or not. Hair is always greater to me. It's more bellen viewic in the realm of humble abodes.
Great to chat with the great Cub fans. I'll be back in a few weeks. Thanks for accepting my return. I promise not to mention my Florida teams when the season begins. I'm just mentioning them while it's the off season. Good luck!
Peace out to all my hippies!
Not so happy to see Greene in St Louis. He had a down year but has flashed real potential in the past.
bryan...i read about the two year window right here at cco "News and rumors out of the offices at 1060 West Addison seem to be changing on an hourly basis. For an organization that reportedly has a "two-year window to win" there appears to be several questions Jim Hendry must find an answer to over the next three months.
check couple articles back and there is even a link and bryan cubs fans have been waiting 100 years for prospects to work out and help the cubs get to the promised land but they have not arrived for 100 years and counting
GO CUBBIES
Eddy...
I gave Bryan both of the links....thanks for clearing that up. I was rather surprised to see that quote in print.
Khalil Greene is awful....if you like guys who strike out a ton, hit for low BA/OBP, and hits some meaningless HR's, he's your guy...The guy had 1 decent year in 2007. other than that, he's been terrible. No thanks.
SD has been trying to dump his hiney for 3 years now....doesn't that speak volumes ?
I'm glad the cardinals picked him up. They are now weaker.
The Cardnials are not weaker with the addition of Khalil Greene....and he certainly has not been on the trading block for the last few years.
He went on the block this year because of his contract and the Padres fire sale. Plus, there was a riff between him and the team as the Pads are trying to get a chunk of his salary back because of him hurting himself punching something in the clubhouse tunnel.
However he is one of the better fielding shortstops in baseball...and yes he had an off year last year, but that followed his "one good year" as you put it. That good year provided 44 2B's, 27 HR's and 97 RBI's even while playing in Petco Park for 82 games. Before that he was good for about 30 2B's, 15 HR's and 65 RBI each year. He was second in ROY voting in 2004. Sure his strikeouts are a bit higher than you'd like, and his average could use help. But he certainly isn't as crappy as you think he is.
You know, I'm not that torn on trading Marquis for very little. Marquis is a decent fifth starter, but he's no fit for the Cubs...I mean, when he lost games, he REALLY lost games, and chances are he'd diminish the bullpen for the next few games, putting more pressure on the other starters. Heck, that could be what got Zambrano. I always said, and still believe, that Marquis would be a big plus on the postseason roster, but 1) he's more likely to prevent us from getting there in the first place and 2) with the team the way it is now, we'd never get to his spot in the rotation before we were out of it.
If outright giving him up to a team for nothing means that we'll get Peavy AND have Ted Lilly become the fifth starter simply by the fact that he's the most inconsistant of the five, THAT is a good pitching rotation.
When he lost games...he REALLY lost games?? Are you just tossing statements?
Reality check....Marquis had one start that he allowed 7 runs and we lost that game. He had one start he allowed 6 runs, had a no-decision and the team won. He had 3 starts that he allowed 5 runs and he won one of them while losing two. That means in 28 starts he gave up 4 runs or less in 23 of them. Yet you say he "REALLY" lost when he lost. He only lost 9 games to begin with, and only 3 of them did he allow 5 or more runs.
Further, he was 11-9 as a number 5 man, and more importantly the team was 17-12 when he started.
Now let's look at Big Z's numbers shall we? He gave up 9 runs once and lost. He gave up 8 runs once and lost. He gave up 7 runs once and lost. He gave up 6 runs once, had a no-decision and the team won. He gave up 5 runs three times, two being no-decisions that the team won and one being a loss.
So, while Marquis had just 5 starts that he allowed 5 runs or more, Zambrano had 7.
You talk about him diminishing the bullpen.....he's the 5th starter dude......thats what 5th starters usually do....or they'd be the number 1 or 2 starter if they were going deeper in games....
I agree if we get Peavy, he is squeezed out by default. But otherwise...he has done fine as the number 5 man in the rotation.
I'm not sure we will get peavy, but I would be more than happy to see Marquis go.
I doubt we land peavy, but it would be nice to see marquis gone regardless. Marshall should beat out Marquis in spring training, and then what do we do with this 9 million dollar liability.
Furthermore, all signs point towards a lefty vet like ibanez or milton bradely coming to the northside, not a peavy and abreu. Its fun to dream big, that is what this time of year is all about, I just don't see us making a big splash via FA or Trade because of the uncertain ownership situation.
Just listening to David Kaplan on WGN, (who is very knowledgeable) and he reiterated exactly what I have been saying about Peavy. No way do you trade Josh Vitters for this guy. He said that he has discussed the proposed trade with a number of scouts (as well as Steve Stone) and they say no way as well. They all think peavy is a decent #2 starter, no more. The guy has been pitching in the greatest pitchers park ever constructed. LOOK AT HIS ROAD NUMBERS, they ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL...and he missed about 6/7 starts last year. Those are 2 very big red flags. And oh by the way, he's owed a lot of money over next 4 years. I'm telling all you Peavy lovers out there, this guy is OVERRATED.
And oh by the way, people who have seeen Josh Vitters say this guy is an absolute stud. Think about that too...
no, no, no !!
CC002600...I heard the exact same thing. Will be in tomorrow's article.
First how can anyone say Vitters is an absolute "stud"? Thats just nuts. The kid is 18 years old and still learning how to scratch himself.... In Boise he hit .328 with 5 homeruns in 259 AB's. Decent numbers....but nothing "studly" about him. And as mentioned in a post below....maybe he just might turn out to be our future third baseman just like Kevin Orie or Gary Scott!!
As for Peavy and his numbers, I posted a lengthy argument on that a couple weeks ago. Yes, he pitched in Petco. But there are few baseball people who don't consider Peavy a number one pitcher. His K's are always up there (that has nothing to do with the ballpark) and his WHIP is always good each year and for his career he's ranked 8th among active pitchers. That's pretty good.
Cubs are going to wind up with him......
I'm new and just wanted to post a few maybe far-fetched possible moves. For a blockbuster trade I remember reading in ESPN the magazine that Milwaukee would look long and hard at trading Prince Fielder since he has 1 more year before he becomes arbitration-eligle. My move would be to send Carlos Zambrano, Derek Lee, and Rich Hill to the Brewers for Fielder, Cory Hart, and Jeff Suppan. I know Z and Lee have no-trade clauses and would probably kill it, but Milwaukee is in desperate need of SP, especially after they loose C.C. when the town has gotten used to a stud. They get Z (18mil), Lee (13mil) and Hill (.5mil) and get to dump a bad contract in Suppan (12.5mil) and two very good, cheap players, but both might be too expensive for them after next season (they currently make just over 1mil combined this year, but will be in line for huge raises. This finacially sets them up getting a "stud" SP in Zambrano for about 17 mil more spent next season which they would have given even more to land C.C. We get our RF with speed and pop and a 1B with lots of pop. Good clubhouse guys, both young, and both lefthanded hitters. We suck up Suppan's contract and his almost 5 ERA. I might also look at Rickie Weeks as he has almost worn out his welcome there but still has great upside in speed and power. Probably never be considered but it might make sense for both teams given salary limitations. I have a few more smaller deals, but I'll save them for tomorrow.
thestrick9,
Welcome to the site!
As for your trade ideas...I'm sure we'd all welcome a change at first. Lee looks every bit his age right now, and then some...I don't think he's ever fully recovered from that wrist injury, and unforunately, I contend that even Lee could've been caught up in the 'roids mess, which is why he ad that monster year, but that's just my opinion.
Anyhow, back to the trade idea...Unless it's the Pirates, I don't think there's a chance top teams will trade with others in the division. It's the same reason the Padres won't trade Peavy to the Dodgers, because they don't want to face him in the division all those times.
I'm one of the few on this site that completely disagrees with Hendry on almost every trade/signing that he does. I don't think he makes very wise decisions short and long-term to improve the ballclub. I think his best decision was by default---when Prior and Wood kept getting hurt, he HAD to go out and get some pitching. He struck gold with Lilly, but while other pitchers like Meche, etc., were getting monster deals for mediocre stats, stats don't lie, andyou either must make trades to get that good pitching and ride out the ridiculous FA contracts, or you give the job to a guy like Marshall, who was deserving at the time, and a far better option than his other FA pitching signing---Marquis
Unfortunately, we don't have a creative GM like Beane, Byrnes, Epstein, Dombrowski, Ken Williams, or Gillick. Those guys are very much proactive in their approach to trades, which nets them great prospects for veterans that don't fit the plan, and in turn, they find ways to trade those same prospects in some cases for a young, talented MLB player. Williams just turned Javier Vasquez, an extreme disappointment on several stops in his career, into one of the premier catching prospects in the game, as well as a few other talented prospects. Why not look to package Lilly for some top prospects, keep a few, spin the rest and a few of our own for Peavy, then give Lilly's role to Marshall, thus shaving $11 million off the payroll, and being able to afford Peavy AND a left-handed power hitter.
I just don't think he's forward-thinking enough to pull off trades like that. It's like the good trades (ARAM and Lofton) fall into his lap.
I hope he'll prove me wrong one of these days, but I just see us going into spring training with more question marks than answers, for the following reasons:
1)Fukudome probably can't adjust to MLB pitching. If he couldn't make a single adjustment for the last 4 months of the season, the why would you think a light bulb would ever come on?
2)Harden, if still with the team, will show up to camp with a reduction in velocity, and then the injury watch a la Wood and Prior will commence.
3)Lee will still look is age, and will still pound balls into the ground with limited power
4)Marquis will still be with the team.(I really hope I'm wrong on this one, because he hurts the team)
5)Hendry will give up no less than: Marshall, Pie, Vitters, Cedeno, Atkins, and maybe even Welington Castillo to obtain Peavy. What he doesn't understand...but most of us, and the mainstream media already understand---is that Towers has backed himself into a corner. By asking for the moon, and taking too long, Hendry traded away a piece he wanted alreay (Ceda for Gregg), and the Braves traded Tyler Flowers---whom they were after as well. The Orioles, which are notoriously difficult to deal with in trades, are asking for the moon for a piece of the Padres trade (Garret Olsen) that should cost no more than a second-tier prospect or two (think, Darwin Barney or Mitch Atkins...though Atkins might even be a stretch)
6)The Cubs will lose Kroeger and Veal in the Rule 5. Kroeger would've been a nice addition to the 40-man, while Veal might be offered back after lacking control...yet another guy we might have been able to trade for Peavy or to another team to get prospects to spin.
7)Hendry will either trade for a Teahen-type player, or sign Ibanez
top targets should be: Furcal, Dunn, and Randy Johnson
Furcal solves the lead-off/speed portion of the team. Dunn solves the power lefty bat/OBP machine that we need, and Randy Johnson will cost very little, and allow us to keep all our top prospects to use in other trades if need be at the trade deadline or before.
If you want to get creative...I'd trade Lilly to a team like the A's who appear willing to compete and have prospects to trade like Carter-the power hitting first baseman, or to the Royals in a swap for Eric Hosmer, Kai'ahue, plus other pitching talent, or to maybe the Rays for Edwin Jackson and a prospect. As mentioned, you save $11 million there, Johnson will cost $5-6 million reportedly, so you have $6 million left on that single trade to spend. Couple that with trading Marquis, and you could have a rotation like this AND a surplus of $16 million for signing Furcal and/or Dunn, and maybe even retaining Wood:
Z
Harden
Dempster
Johnson
Marshall/Samardzija/Guzman/(Jackson)
I enjoy everything Lilly has done for us, but to be honest, he's primed to come down to earth, much like DeRosa, and his value might never be higher, just like DeRosa.
Why not use these guys to land huge prospects or key pieces for next year? Both Lilly and DeRosa, at 34 years old next year, probably have 2 solid years left...Given that, with their value at its peak, one year left on each of their contracts (well, Lilly has 2)...so there's minimum risk to a team right there in terms of length of contract, recent productivity numbers, clean bill of health, etc.
Hendry and Piniella have basically given up on DeRosa as their everyday second baseman, though he's earned it, in favor of going after a guy like Brian Roberts 2 straight offseasons. Wouldn't behoove them to test his trade value, then go out and get a versatile type like Teahen to fill the void? Additionally, with Z and Dempster signed for 4 more years, Samardzija signed for a few more years and expected to start, wouldn't it make sense to also test Lilly's value to see what they could get?
With the going rate nowadays, it seems DeRosa would cost 2 prospects---one top prospect ad one low-A prospect, while Lilly should net no less than 3 prospects. Marquis, as a 5th starter should net 2 prospects. That's 7 prospects, and $25 million slashed. At 27, Teahen would make sense, cost far less, while as mentioned, Johnson could be signed to take over Lilly's spot, and we could give Marquis' spot to a cheaper option like Marshall, Hart, Guzman, etc.
As guys like Steve Stone have mentioned, trading the farm for Peavy, and especially Vitters, would not make sense, especially with pitching seeming to be our strong suit, and an area that we draft and develop well. Whereas, trading Vitters and Pie would only serve to set us back even further. I believe it was Peter Gammons or someone at ESPN that mentioned Pie reminded him of a young Lou Brock, and Pie just has never been given a real chance to start. I mean, how can we possibly give Cedeno a shot to start at shortstop for a full season...and Murton too...but we can't extend the same chance to Pie? Piniella may be a better strategist than Baker, but he sure seems like the same guy otherwise to me if he has a vendetta against younger guys like Hoffpauir and Pie.
Or we hold on to Vitters and he either pans out like our other can't miss #1 picks like Ty Griffin, Earl Cunningham, and Brooks Kieschnieck or maybe turns out like out other third basemen of the future Gary Scott and Kevin Orie.
Excellent call David...on the Gary Scott and Kevin Orie reference!!