i would love to see manny in rf but what is the actual chance of that happening

I understand with ownership changing hands money is an issue. But what about Manny Ramirez? I would much rather see Manny in the lineup than B. Roberts or having Peavy slide into our already stellar rotation. He's a left handed bat and you can throw him in RF. Is his defense suspect? A little. But 2-3 years at 20 mil per isnt to bad at all for a player like Manny.

He is right handed. I would love to have him but I don't see it happening unless we move Soriano...which I don't see happening unless.... [lol]

Happy holidays all! Been off with the family for a while, but I've been keeping up with the required CCO reading :-)

Felt it was time to weigh in again...

For this particular off-season - you simply can NOT analyze the moves in a vacuum. The moves that JH has been making are part of a larger strategy and cannot be taken individually.

The ownership situation and budget are having impacts.

Letting Wood go... entirely because of budget considerations. If he stayed, then he STILL would have had to trade away Marquis and DeRo, but it would have been to keep Woody and stay within the budget... not to bring in any other players. Marmol looks more than ready to step in - I'm actually excited about seeing him in the role.

Keeping Wood - for those frustrated with the current lack of impact moves.... essentially our moves would have been over before they began.

Our closer role is in good hands. The team's needs lie elsewhere.

Trading DeRo - opens the job for Fontenot who had comparable power stats per at bat - but for those guys out there saying "you have to look at the historical stats"... convenient how the fact that DeRo's previous career highs for dingers were 13 and 10 gets tossed aside. He hit for some pop last year... but he's NOT NOT NOT a power threat.

This was a sell high move for what is essentially a utility player with a year left on his contract. The players JH got in return were three power pitchers for a rent-a-player... and it frees up the salary.

I agree with the folks on CCO - I loved DeRo. Scrappy guy. Good teammate. But calling him the team MVP? Come on. He's not a guy that you build anything around. He's a complimentary piece.

PLUS during the Peavy talk, DeRo was being shopped supposedly in order to get additional young pitching to add to the pot for the Pads... and at the time the deal was called off, JH was saying things like (paraphrasing) "Three or four team trades are too complicated to judge for me - I prefer to make the deals one at a time and then chain them together - otherwise there are too many elements to pull together"... and now look. Lo and behold... DeRo gets traded for pitching prospects in a straight up deal. Hmmmmm.... coincidence?

Signing Miles as the utility guy in case of injury is a solid but unspectacular addition. He hits for average and has a decent OBP - but little power and no speed. BUT.... trading away 1 year of DeRo at $5.5M and signing Miles for 2 years at $4.9 does not equal a $0.6M savings... he's signed for TWO years... do the math (sigh)

Although - those folks out there saying that we just signed Miles as the leadoff hitter to move Sori lower in the lineup.... not happening. He's a bench utility guy - nothing more. He may hit leadoff here or there... but he's not a leadoff hitter.

He was signed to replace DeRo's positional utility and possibly to give Fontenot a rest against lefties. Nothing more. He's definately not our new leadoff hitter.

Ceda for Gregg - I agree with the assessment that it was likely too much to give up. But he's a slightly better pitcher than Howry was. It's been said that he's Howry with less strikeouts, but that's flat out false. Check out the historic stats. The reasons for the trade? Ceda wasn't going to contribute in '09 to the MLB team. Gregg will.

Plus it's been pointed out that the Marlins were likely to non-tender the guy so that meant that obviously even the Marlins considered him to be a marginal player. Well... not so. The reason for the move on their part would have been salary and not performance. In 2008, he made $2.5M - which is REALLY cheap right? Well... for the Marlins that made him their highest paid player and he was due a raise in arbitration. The highest paid player on their team following that trade? Wes Helms in the second year of a two year/$1.9M deal. Gregg was due a raise to $4-5M all by himself.

Signing Gathright? OK - I agree - it likely signals the end of the Pie era in Chicago. BUT... he's gotten several shots at the job - and while they were limited shots, he failed pretty miserably. On a contender, you can't keep sending a guy out there everyday hitting around .200. I agree with that actually. But even though he's failed in his previous shots, he STILL has value as a trade chip. I read an article that compared his perception to Lastings Milledge. That AAA+ guy that people wonder why he hasn't adjusted and it's just a matter of time.

So although I agree that it might be nice to give him a shot, I'd MUCH rather see him included in a deal right now for a "sure thing". I'm tired of waiting on the rose to blossom.

PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE - reserve judgment on the moves until the remainder of the offseason plays out.

JH is playing a chess match here with his roster. Not checkers.

Moves and counter moves and thinking several moves ahead.

More moves are on the horizon.

Patience Cub fans.

I'm sure JH is getting these prospects for a significant move thats obvious. I agree on getting the bradley deal done. When healthy he will be another player that an opposing pitcher does not want to see and you could argue that every player in our lineup with him in it will be a pain for any opposing pitcher. With him in that lineup we in my mind have one of the scariest teams out there. Now I know he hasnt shown he could stay heathy but we definately have a back up plan in kosuke, so its not like we would be screwed if he did get hurt for a period of the year. Now I would do whatever it takes to get BR, that would be my 1st option and Peavy 2nd. That is all we are lacking is that leadoff man and one of the best at that would be BR. Now if all three of those happen that would be a dream and just unfair to every other team that would have to face us, but very unlikely that happens. And guys prepare to see kosuke have a huge year, will happen

mistertee... You could be right that Bradley breaks down. I got to 30 HR's by extending last year's 22 in 414 AB's by the same ratio in 550 AB's (about 140 games) in Wrigley. He's a guy who can crank 'em in any park, and Wrigley may be a little more friendly, the surrounding bats are a little better, etc. My first choice has been Abreu, because of his durability, but Bradley may be the man.

Aaron...."The Guy" is 31 and will live longer than my (more expensive) choice (Abreu) and the other main choice--the even older Ibanez. Hamilton got over his drug and head problems, and I consider Bradley's head problems largely over. I say that, in part, because he will view his big contract as him finally getting treated fairly--and that chip will be off his shoulders. I am concerned about his health.

I don't think you are saying that Sutcliffe and Dawson were mistakes for the Cubs--even though you implied that. I agree that big contracts can be problems (how about Andruw Jones and his 2 year-$40 mil deal with the Dodgers). But it's the star system that we have to deal with. You look around the league, and a lot of the big contracts work OK--at least until there last year or two. You can't be too critical of DLee's ebbing but still productive skills, and be OK with ARam's and Z's similar deals. Without the deals, we don't have those guys, and we become an Oakland configured team. That would be lots of early round draft picks, that you develop and trade in their prime for more early round draft picks. I am confused too about the Ceda deal, and only major league time for both players will show if JH blew that deal.

SusyS... Damon from the Yanks. We could get him for surprisingly little talent--if we could absorb his $13 mil contract. It would be similar to the DeRo deal. I'm not to keen on Figgins from the Angels. He would cost something like Samardzjia and Flaherty, and I would rather make do with Theriot in the leadoff spot--if Soriano moves down. Riot has less speed and athleticism but comparable hitting stats (as I recall right now.)

Re. Roberts. I don't think he's on JH or Lou's radar screen. As good as he is leading off, 2B is not where we need a boost. My take is that Fontenot is all but penciled in at second.

I dont see why the cubs didnt go after orlando hudson instead of miles...this guy will probably only cost 4-6million and wth the recent dumpin of derosa we could still sign bradley.

Okay once again let me say that unless you are comparing Bradley with a DeRosa type guy you will always say he is mentally fragile but when you talk to TEAM MATES they all like the guy. He will not be a Sammy Sosa in the clubhouse he will be a serious competitor who will not tolerate any crap which comes with apathetic effort.

You guys all talk about health and mental stability..... hmmmm well how can we have counted on Woody based on his history with the DL and his shoulder?

Soriano and his legs? "Z" and his lack of mental focus?? I am as big a fan as anyone but we need to stop allowing our MAN love to blur our team goal of a WS!! Woody, love him or hate him, was fragile at best.

Let's all get behind Jim and understand that he probably has the most pressure of all ML GMs and yet he continues to win, period. If we all want to be completely honest about our teams of the past three or four years you have to look at Soriano, Wood and yes DLee. These are the guys who regardless of what anyone thinks failed to step up and LEAD.

I would also love to give Hoff RF but Bradley is not "sour grapes." What we NEED is a BR at leadoff to kickstart everygame and steal some damn bases. Tell Soriano straight up "you're batting anywhere from #3 to #6, like it or leave it!

My last word.... I am quite aware that I am not your stas guy or historian with regard to each players past however, in the Army I make a living out of observing a persons efforts and their mental toughness. We lack mental toughness as a team. Until we get some REAL leadership on the field where BTW I think Soto may have stepped into that role, we will never have a Championship.

Everyone be safe this Holiday weekend...

GO CUBBIES!!!

Thanks. I really enjoy this site! I agree

that Lee should not hit third, or be back-to back w/Ram in the order.

Though JH has produced 2 division titles, he's enjoyed a greatly enhanced budget to work with, a luxury not available during the Baylor and Dusty regimes.

The Derosa trade is the first he's made, that I recall where we actually acquire prospects. The farm system needs to be beefed up. Too bad there too many

'no trade' contracts in recent years. The Pierre trade was horrible and a waste

of talent(2 pitchers and Nolasco).

Pevy or Roberts are not worth giving up Vetters. It/they should only include people out of options: Pie,Cedeno, Weurtz. Happy '09!

No doubt...we will miss DeRo. On a short contract...comparable money...I would prefer Abreau over Bradley...but Abreau

probably will command more.

It will take Roberts or Chone Figgens to bump Soriano out of lead off...and either of the guys would cost a bundle BUT complete the team.

DeRo was our most tradeable chip (even with a one year contract) and he is

basically gone for nothing.

I wonder if JH even approached the Yankees about Damon...(they do have an overload of outfielders...& he would solve leadoff/center/lefty...all in one swoop...he also is towards the end of his contract.

So guys...here's a question for you...

YOU ARE JH for a day.

What would it take to pry either Johnny

Damon from the Yankees.

OR...Chone Figgins from the A's?

Have Fun!!!

"I think that IF the cubs went after Roberts that vitters/pie/marshall/hill and stevens would do it."

1st: there is no way Cubs brass would give up that much to get Roberts. Yes roberts could be the defining peice that we are missing, but I do not see the Cubs parting with both Vitters and Marshall.

2nd: Is Bradley really the answer we are looking for? He has great upside, but at the same time he has a very volitile personality. If the clubhouse does not mesh, how can we expect to produce?

JimK,

I understand the optimism...I really do. As Cubs fans, that's all we have in most seasons to hang onto. We totally disregard historical stats, etc. when looking at players to sign/trade for. We want that "sexy" player. Why? Well, it's like Pavlov's dogs. We're simply conditioned that way by management to picque our interest in the team. It's always been part of the deal with the Cubs. From Kingman to Sutcliffe to Dawson to Danny Jackson to George Bell to Dave Smith to Mel Rojas to Burnitz to Jones to Soriano, etc., etc.

We have come to expect one big name signing/trade every so often without understanding one bit how these players actually fit with the team and what the plan should be (to win a World Series...FINALLY).

You look at almost every single World Series winner, and what do they have in common? They have at least 3 CONSISTENT starters (you know, the kind you can expect what they're going to do any given day without guessing), a shutdown closer and good set-up man, a good table-setting lead-off man, and in most cases, 3 big boppers in the 3, 4, and 5 spots in the lineup.

We have:

-Zambrano, Dempster, and Lilly at the front end.

*with Z, you NEVER know if you'll get the no-hit type of pitcher or the erratic one. With Dempster, he's coming off a MAJOR career year, so who knows if you'll get Dempster "historical" or Dempster 2008. I would argue that Lilly i perhaps our most consistent starter now. At least you know he'll give up about 4 runs per game, and about 7 innings, so you'll need to score at least 6 runs per game with him starting to give you a chance to win.

-Marmol, who is an unproven closer but dominating force as a set-up man, will be counted on to switch roles this year, so we can't count on anything. Our other option, Gregg, was the WORST closer last year in terms of blown saves----not exactly a good secondary option like we had with the Wood-Marmol tandem last year.

-Soriano...love him or hate him in lead-off (which he is NOT the ideal lead-off man), but he at least has decent speed, which you like, and as we saw like 6-7 times last season, he can put you up 1-0 on the first pitch of the game, which is always good....I'd say "wash" here.

-Lee, ARAM, ? That's what we have right now for 3,4, and 5. If we sign Bradley, when healthy, I say it makes us a better lineup...but how many times did we say that with Wood and Prior? Now you want to sign the "cracked egg" to play an integral role in our lineup. Hell, as I've said til I'm blue in the face, the guy has had 7 full MLB seasons to prove he's healthy, and the best the guy could do was 141 games, and next best was 126 last year in his "career year", which happened to be the ONLY times he even played more than 100 games, which is HORRIBLE for a guy supposedly demanding 3 yrs and $30 million. I'd rather have Hoffpauir out there all year. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't see how you could possibly make that deal for a guy so fragile both physically AND mentally.

Those proponents of this deal will seriously regret this deal. Seriously, I anticipate 3 years of 100, 85, and 110 IF we're that lucky, which is a HORRIBLE return on the dollar. Now, I'm just venturing a guess, but I would assume that most that are unhappy with Soriano, the reason is really two-fold----he's been injured a lot with us, AND he doesn't show up in the postseason. He has 135 games played and 109 games played. If he played 20 more games the first year and 40 more games last year, we might've seen 35-40 HR, and 90+RBI, and I think most would've been happy with that, but if you hit 30 hr and 75-80 RBI while hitting .290-.300 and .330-.340 OBP, you're going to catch a LOT of flack when you're making $17 million/year. Imagine what will happen with him if he doesn't play that many games. If you thought Jones got a lot of flack for his play...imagine how he'll be treated by the bleacher bums if he can't stay on the field and makes that kind of money.

Again, I can say it until I'm blue in the fac, but I don't think many of you realize what an inept GM Hendy really is. I can understand the trade for Gregg---I really can. Essentially, he was swapping Howry for Gregg, and they make the same salary (at least year), BUT, I CANNOT understand trading our top pitching prospect for him. I also can understand signing Miles for bench duty, but what many don't realize is that DeRosa was in the last year of his deal for $5.5 million. Miles signed a deal guaranteeing $4.9 million for 2 years, which represents a toatal savings of $600k. Miles might totally flame out (highly likely given his historical stats), and you're on the hook for $4.9 million. Then, Hendry trades Marquis and his $9.8 million for Vizcaino's $4 million plus incentives. Now, this is where I get REALLY mad. See, the Cubs had no less than: Cotts, Marshall, Guzman, Hart, Wuertz, Samardzija, and Marmol for the pen already. Only Cotts, Wuertz, and Samardzija made more than $1 million in that group. So, what does Hendry do...he gets two scrubs Gregg and Vizcaino at more than $8 million between the two of them for essentially our top pitching prospect, our fifth starter, AND Kerry Wood. If he would've ponied up the money for Wood, a leader in the clubhouse, Wood probably would've given a discount to maybe $8-9 million per year, so in that case, you save your top pitching prospect, you keep your closer, and your bullpen remains intact. See, either way, Hendry ponies up $8-9 million for Gregg and Vizcaino. Why not Wood? He's a complete MORON guys....do you even see it?

Say you offload Marquis, and take nothing but prospects in return...that means you'll have to pick up maybe $3-4 million of his salary, but you save $5 million, which would equal DeRosa's salary. I just can't understand this guy sometimes and why he's still allowed to be GM of the best team in MLB---okay, I'm biased.

Here's what we have in contracts with his recent moves:

Subtract-$5.5 million (DeRosa), $9.875 million (Marquis)

Add-$4.9 million (Miles), $4 million +incentives (Vizcaino), $4 million (Gregg-though it could be more through arbitration), $800K (Gathright)

net=(1,675,000)

So, out of his recent trades/signings, we saved a total of $1.675 million. Like I said, subtract Marquis, then add Wood, and their salaries equal. If you look at it that way, then he actually ADDED abou $10 million with Vizcaino, Gregg, and Gathright, and lost his top pitching prospect in the process.

Does anyone else see this from a logical perspective like I do?

Happy New Year guys! I'm waiting for all the shoes to drop before I render an opinion on this offseason. I love DeRo but I'm hoping Mighty Mike may provide some unexpected thunder this year. Bradley's health is scary but he definitely provides another basher in the lineup. I would really like to see Roberts happen just so he would lead off and Sori could drop down in the lineup. Otherwise, Fonz is leading off still, and while it could be worse, a legitimate 1 guy would be nice.

Anyone else think that Lee shouldn't be hitting 3rd this year?

Sorry folks, I'm just not sold on Bradley. Jim K, you say "It's also true that, if his health is good, he could easily produce a line of .315-30-110 in 140 games." How do you figure? Bradley has played as many as 140 games exactly once in his career, and responded with a .267-19-67 line. He has never hit 30 homers and never driven in more than 77 (last year). He has hit above .315 once as well, again last year in 126 games. If your predictions are to come true, that means that in 14 more games he will hit 8 more homers and drive in 33 more runs. I hope for the sake of all the Cubs fans out there that those 14 games come in the playoffs!

The truth of the matter is that it is much more likely that Bradley will break down in the middle of things, and we will all miss Derosa that much more - leaving us all with no clean underwear.

All of us natives are restless. Some are mad as hell. Here may be some "comfort food" that could lower some blood pressures or shed some light on what's happenig now.

In our Cubs'angst, the facts likely include:

JH and Lou could not stand pat with the 2008 team. Making roster changes is a lot like draw poker--you may or may not get the results you want, but you can't improve your hand if you don't try.

JH does have real budget limitations and difficult contract situations that are avoidable only through 20--20 hindsight. Venting second guessers of ltc's that are part of system don't bring a lot to the table. The resulting roster change limitations put unprotected players like Wood and DeRo on the bubble, and they force poor return trades for players like Marquis.



JH gets little apparent and immediate value for DeRo because DeRo could be a 1 year rental for the Indians. That JH felt compelled to trade DeRo (and let Wood go) to raise budget dollars to spend elsewhere is painful--and part of the disgusting business side of the game. Tampering Towers, GM of the Pads is in a worse budget situation, and we may end up with Peavy as a result. Awaiting "new ownership approval" re. Peavy may mean that he is insisting that the $20 mil option year of his otherwise, team favorable contract be guaranteed. It also could mean that the new owners will have substantial borrowing costs in the funding of their purchase--which would work to limit payroll availability. That could move JH to a less costly pitcher.

To fully understand and evaluate JH, you have to understand underwear--as in the old Hanes commercials. JH would like to leap over major obstacles in a single bound (like Superman), but his underwear won't let him. That underwear includes budget and existing contract limitations. So we have to understand that JH is playing high stakes poker, and that he is wearing underwear.

If winning something is a sound measure of success (and it is), then JH was successful the last two years. Only 4 teams of 30 have made it to the post season each of the last two years--and the Cubs are one of them. (The Red Sox, Phillies and Angels are the others.) OK, it is only silver medals we see in the trophy room, and they do not shine like the gold ones. And that's why JH plays poker.

Is Bradley a significant answer to an improved offense? Is he a keeper? It's true that he hasn't been yet. But it's also true that everyone (in all walks of life) wants to be considered a keeper. Given his likely rich contract circumstances and the team environment, Bradley may be O.K. tempermentally. It's also true that, if his health is good, he could easily produce a line of .315-30-110 in 140 games. And that, once again, is why JH plays poker.

All the circumstances considered, JH is way above average and no chump. He does have work to do--to make more sense of the transactions thus far in the off-season. Yes, I know that waiting messed the little boy's pants. I'm guessing that most of us have back-up underwear--should waiting be unbearable for us too. But wait we must. Kenny Rogers sang it best, "There's time enough for counting after the dealing's done".

It's a shame to lose a DeRosa...class guy, versatile, and loved to play in front of the Wrigley faithful. I'm amazed that the "package" we received was all we could get for a guy who drove in 85 RBI's.

If I was Hendry I would have done everything I could to have dumped Soriano's contract, and then gotten a package of similar prospects. I would have preferred an OF of DeRosa in LF, Pie/Johnson in CF and Bradley/Fukodome in RF. DeRosa's numbers are better than Soriano's, and he's just a all-out better team chemistry guy.

I predict we'll get Peavy (because Hendry is drooling over this "dream" rotation), but I'd do the same thing the Indians did...we'll give up Cedeno and perhaps Hill, then take your pick of 1-2 mid (off the radar) "prospects", but not Vitters and Pie. Why is is when we trade for someone we always give up our top prospects, but when the return happens all we get are middle of the mud hopefuls?

I also agree with Aaron that no-one is to blame more than Hendry for these long-term, no trade contracts for the likes of Lee and Soriano. Soriano is Soriano, no matter if he's "healthy or not". The guy still can't differentiate a ball from a strike. As for Derrick Lee, he needs to show a return-to-form early in spring training, or I'd quickly anointe the position to Hoffpauer, and give him his due.

I think it's going to be a long season...thank goodness the central hasn't strengthened around us.

To all of my CCO mates; I Pray that "09" brings you all peace and happiness (not just because the CUBS acquire BR!!)

I just want to contribute some thoughts this morning.

First of all I am not sure what to "think" about the Derosa move but I do know that I "feel" we will pay for it as late season injuries reveal the need for flexibility in certain games which with DeRo we hardly missed a beat.

I have been saying for two years now that with BR we will be unstoppable. Yes, I said it, UNSTOPPABLE! When you think about the lack of fear at the top of our lineup, suffice it to say BR would cause concern for the opposing team from the first pitch. Not just his BA but his 50 stolen bases! The guy is a gamer, class act and WANTS to be a CUB!! JH GET HIM NOW!!

I am not HOT for Jake Peavey only because our Starting rotation is far and away better than the rest of the NL. With JP we hit 100 wins ok, great but if we can't get the leadoff hitter on base in the playoffs and hit dominant pitching, then JP becomes irrelevant very quickly.

I am very supportive of picking up Milton Bradley. I think he is an uber-competitive guy who HATES losing!! I wish all pro athletes felt that way. I have read that most players in San Diego loved him in the dugout!! We could use a boystrous veteran like that who desperately wants to go out as a Champion.

I do not like the thought of Dunn in RF at all. I would rather face him with our pitching staff than have him up at the plate late in the game with a good closer on the hill!! Can you say Strike Out!!

This is my dream opening day lineup:

Roberts 2B

Fuks CF

ARam 3B

Bradley RF

Sori LF

Soto C

Lee 1B

Theriot SS

Peavy P

WoW!! When I look at this lineup, I get real warm inside!!! Lol

Happy New Year CCO!!

Happy New Year to all...Thanks Neil for all the work you do...it's a great site.

Thank you Suzy...and Happy New Year!

I think that IF the cubs went after robert that vitters/pie/marshall/hill/and stevens would do it.

marshall is not going anywhere

Just like to say this about milton bradley

When he was with san diego(worst hitters park) he batted 313, 30 rbi's, and 11 homeruns in only 42 games

thats pretty impressive to me considering the park in which he played in

Happy New Year CCO folks! I know that you all are the reason Neil does everything he does. We wish you and your families a happy, healthy and prosperous 2009!

Happy New Year to all!!!!

GO CUBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!