Neil and Joe S....thank you very much for clarifying the reality of the business aspect of Piniella's comments....I guess I'm quite naive when it comes to these things...I just took it at face value...your comments/explanations make a lot of sense...I feel quite silly now..lol

What about the Theriot as our leadoff hitter ? He has good speed, rarely strikes out, and had an .387 OBP, which was 8th in the league. Not too shabby. Or what about Reed Johnson ?

I say sign Ibanez and close up shop. Forget Peavy, he will cost too much in $$ and prospects. He's overrated, having pitched the last 5 years in the grand canyon. Put Ibanez in the middle of our order, and you will strike some fear in opposing pitchers. And forget Furcal. He's not worth the $$ either. How's this lineup ?

Riot - SS

Johnson - cf

Aram -3b

Ibanez - rf

Lee - 1B

Soto - C

Soriano - Lf

Derosa - 2b

here's your 09 champs !

:-)

Hi everyone,

According to Piniella on Cubs.com, the Cubs are done pursuing Peavy! It's officially over...

Here is the link:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081125&content_id=3692094&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

give me a quote from hendry or towers and i'll believe it

09shine, is your comment to me or Duas? I cannot tell.

to duas... until either hendry or towers says that peavy will not be a cub.. there's a chance that he will be

Duas, it's not over. The Padres TV guy (I think his name is Bob Scanlon) was just on XM and he does not think it is over. Even the Sun-Times article title was changed during the day and now the word 'likely' has been inserted.

I will have more in tomorrow's article (I am working on it right now) but Piniella could not answer that question but any other way. Wittenmyer talked with him over the weekend and Kevin Towers said on Monday the Cubs are still in the mix.

Piniella or anyone with the Cubs cannot comment on another team's player, it is called tampering. Also, if he was to come out and say 'yes' then what kind of message would it send, especially if the deal never happens.

Towers can talk all he wants because it is his player, the Cubs cannot.

I am not saying one way or the other that I want the trade to happen, but from what I have read and heard today, I cannot read the report in the Sun-Times and think it is over.

That would be former Cub Bob Scanlon too!

I didnt hear the report, but all other reports on local television news and talk radio indicate that talks may get back on track at the winter meetings coming up.....I agree with that....would be the easiest way to work something out with a third team.....

Jake really wants the Cubs.....how can you deny a player like that who wants to be there?? I think the trade gets pulled off. Just have no clue who the players will be. I think it will be a mix of the experienced players we have discussed and the minor leaguers....

You were dead on that Pinella cannot comment on a Padres player. I think perhaps some of the deinal is also to try and drive the price down a bit. Show a lack of interest, and hope they come down on "price"....

I think business will pick up in the coming week or so on alot of fronts.....

Joe, I went back and looked at my notes and it was Bob Scanlon.

He said he thinks the Piniella comment was more about 'positioning' than anything else.

I am not saying Wittenmyer's report is not accurate, but as I mentioned, it's not like Piniella can just come right out and say 'yes'.

Yep...it's weird to see Scanlon on Padre games....he's actually pretty good in studio!

I agree completely with his "positioning" view....

Wow Aaron.... we ALL know how much you don't like Hendry and that you haven't liked him for some time... and in your community post you made some decent points... but you're WAY over selling things.

Yes - Gregg's numbers aren't stellar... but he's a solid major league proven arm. He's not going to blow guys away, but he does know how to get guys out. Plus he has a rubber arm and can go multiple days in a row and that's a good commodity for an MLB bullpen.

But I'm not even going to look at that half of things - you've said your piece and backed it up with stats galore. You feel he's going to be a chump - I think otherwise.

However, my take is on the "7-8 years of our prime pitching prospect". That's where I think you're overselling.

First off... since you're using past performance out the wazoo - let me do it as well. The following lists are from Baseball America.

Cubs Top 10 Prospects 2005

==========================

1. Brian Dopirak, 1b

2. Felix Pie, of

3. Ryan Harvey, of

4. Angel Guzman, rhp

5. Billy Petrick, rhp

6. Renyel Pinto, lhp

7. Sean Marshall, lhp

8. John Leicester, rhp

9. Grant Johnson, rhp

10. Jason Dubois, of/1b



Cubs Top 10 Prospects 2006

==========================

1. Felix Pie, of

2. Mark Pawelek, lhp

3. Ronny Cedeno, ss

4. Angel Guzman, rhp

5. Rich Hill, lhp

6. Sean Marshall, lhp

7. Ricky Nolasco, rhp

8. Ryan Harvey, of

9. Brian Dopirak, 1b

10. Eric Patterson, 2b

Cubs Top 10 Prospects 2007

==========================

1. Felix Pie, of

2. Donald Veal, lhp

3. Jeff Samardzija, rhp

4. Tyler Colvin, of

5. Sean Gallagher, rhp

6. Eric Patterson, 2b

7. Scott Moore, 3b

8. Ryan Harvey, of

9. Chris Huseby, rhp

10. Mark Pawelek, lhp

Cubs Top 10 Prospects 2008

==========================

1. Josh Vitters, 3b

2. Geovany Soto, c/1b

3. Tyler Colvin, of

4. Jose Ceda, rhp

5. Sean Gallagher, rhp

6. Donald Veal, lhp

7. Josh Donaldson, c

8. Jeff Samardzija, rhp

9. Tony Thomas, 2b

10. Kevin Hart, rhp

Note: Their 2009 list isn't due for the Cubs until Jan. 12

Now then - other than Soto, Gallagher, and Samardzija... and I'll throw in (for a while) Rich Hill as well... who else on those lists has had any impact whatsoever on the major league level?

I can go back farther and bring the likes of top prospects Bobby Hill and Hee Seop Choi into the mix too, but 4 years is probably sufficient.

Now I'm not saying that they won't have success. There's still time for some of these kids and some of them are bound to find the right situation and flourish - maybe for a season or two or maybe for a full long career.

And a few years back guys like Prior and Wood were also part of the top prospects list - so it's not a complete "swing and a miss" by the talent evaluators. They do hit sometimes.

Simple point is that being a highly rated prospect many times - nay - MOST times does not translate into success on the MLB level.

Your bashing of Hendry about this deal is about 4 years premature.

Mark Guthrie-2.74 ERA, but 3.65 and 4.82 in 2 other stints with us (4.05 ERA career)

Mel Rojas-4.42 ERA with us (3.82 ERA for his career)

Latroy Hawkins-2.63 and 3.32 ERA with us

(4.64 ERA for his career)

Joe Borowski-2.73, 2.63, and 8.02, and6.55 ERA with us (4.18 ERA for his career)

Bob Howry-3.17, 3.32, and 5.35 ERA with us (3.68 ERA for his career)

Scott Eyre-3.38, 4.13, and 7.15 ERA with us (4.36 ERA for his career)

drum roll please....

Kevin Gregg-3.28, 4.21, 5.04, 4.14, 3.54, and 3.41 ERA's in his career

(4.00 ERA for his career average)

But, yeah, I guess he isn't a chump. I believe many of you have commented on here, or made reference to the past with some of these guys---and you think of them as chumps. At 30 years old, it's not looking good for Gregg. As we know, pitchers tend to peak around 25-33...and unless you're Jamie Moyer, or Clemens, or a pitcher that really keeps in shape, you're probably on the decline. I give Gregg 2 more good years left. Was that worth 7-8 prime years of our top pitching prospect?

As I said, if Hendry had no use for Veal...which it appears he doesn't, then wouldn't it have been in his best interest to get rid of him instead. After all, the Miami papers said Gregg was to be non-tendered anyhow. It's just mind-bottling (sorry, had to make the Will Ferrell Blades of Glory reference there).

To respond to the trades from my other post, JimK...

You can look at my reponse in the blog, and that should answer some of that. As for the minor trades for Teahen, Hermida, etc., I was merely looking at other trades for similar production, and that seems to be what would net you guys like that. In the case of the Marlins, where they seem to favor non-tendering arby-eligible guys, or trade them before that...it would appear that, yes, we have some leverage, and we should exploit that just as other teams do.

I honestly think some GM's think Hendry is a sucker...this whole notion that, "hey, here's a guy with a $130 million budget...we can take him to the house, because he's not going to miss his prospects---he'll just buy free agents to fill holes." I've seen similar things play out in other industries...especially in construction. I have a very wealthy friend that was building a house. He had three VERY wide ranging bids. One was for something like $850,000, another for $1.3 million, and one for something like $1 million even if I remember correctly (obviously, I'm rounding up, but you get the point)...The bid for $850k was completely legit, and I even reviewed it, along with checking the BBB as well for any complaints--which there were none, while the other 2, we found out later, by talking to other builders, that they were price gouging because they knew he was rich, and would probably buy it anyway.

When Hendry came out and did the idiotic and unforgiveable thing of saying he wasn't re-signing Wood---not only did he lose respect with me and many other fans, but he also lost his major leverage in ANY trade. He plugged Kerry's spot with an unproven, but very talented Marmol, and replaced Marmol's spot with a lesser talent in Gregg. Tell me how that makes us better?

See, if you have Wood as a wild card, your top pitching stud prospect in Ceda, and others in the background, then teams are less inclined to ask for the moon. But, when you make stupid trades like that, GM's notice. Think about that statement for a second....

Let's say you're a salesman selling high-end widgets, and your company was offering a promotion (not publicized) of about $1,000 ($1,500 normal), and one of your best clients comes in to buy 100 of them. About a month later, he comes back, looking to buy 100 more, only the price is $1,500. He asks, "what gives?!?!" You respond with, "well, before our company had a surplus, but now we're in a shortage...$1,500 is the best I can do." He responds, "screw you, I'll take my business elsewhere."

Similarly, Jim Hendry had what might be considered as a surplus of pitching talent, but he bought really low when he traded for Kevin Gregg, and paid dearly in the trade, and in GM circles, do you think that goes unnoticed. It's no wonder the Royals are said to be asking for Marshall, and a combination of two of Cedeno, Pie, and Fontenot. Why wouldn't they ask for that, after Hendry just traded our top pitching prospect for a 30 year old chump reliever that just had knee surgery, is coming off a season in which he blew 9 saves, and sports a 4.00 career ERA.

The best closer in the game last year---Brad Lidge, netted a sub-.300 OBP speed guy in Michael Bourn (think Pie), a 31 year old reliever Geary that sports a 3.68 career ERA (with a #1 comparison to Michael Wuertz), and a minor league 3B in Constanzo that is older than Vitters---but compares favorably.

Now, keep in mind, Lidge was traded with a utility guy in Bruntlett, but sports a 3.10 career ERA (almost a full run less than Gregg), and sports even better stats than Marmol in terms of K/9 innings. Now, it's well-documented that he struggled in 2006, but out of 7 full seasons, that was his only ERA above 3.60.

Now, I pose the question to you...If Brad Lidge, one of the premier closers in the league before 2006 struggled one year, and was demoted from closer, rebounded and had a fairly solid year in 2007, then was traded---and could net one top prospect...then why did we give our top pitching prospect for Gregg, who has done NOTHING in his career

Lidge: 7 seasons, 470 IP, 164 saves, 653 K's, 205 walks

Gregg: 6 seasons, 408 IP, 62 saves, 366 K's, 163 walks

If you're giving up that many walks as a reliever, then you best be a strike out machine, or you're going to get hurt. Dempster found this out as closer, which is why he switched to being a starter again.

That, my friends, is using logic, and using past history to dictate what you should be giving up in trades. Hendry should've told them to "F##K off" if they asked for Ceda...at least Ceda, with his 11+K's per 9 innings can overcome wildness, just as Marmol can with his K's. Guys like Gregg remind me of Howry, and Dempster when he was closer, and we don't need them in the pen, and ESPECIALLY not as closer.

THE END!!

I'll take ibanez. But if we don't get Peavy, I would like to see a Furcal or Roberts added.

I think we should just tell Marquis that he is being overpaid and change his salary. (I think he would go for that.) Then, we would have no problem trading the guy. He has value, he just gets paid too much.

I say the cubs go ahead and get Ibanez we try to sign him for two years He did bat 293 with 110 rbi's I will take that bat in our line-up any day it already looks like we aren't going to get any better defensivly so you mind as well get him... and they I would love to somehow trade marquis even if you have to buy more than half his contract.. then sign the big unit for a one year deal.... he is not great but he could be a great 5th starter that is for sure

I think the only reason people don't like the Gregg trade is it meant Kerry Wood was not returning.

There is no sure thing when it comes to prospects, especially relievers. With all the hype around Ceda, I'm glad they got rid of him while he still had value.

No one knows where a good reliever will come from. Who can honestly say that they saw Marmol coming up through the system and being the type of reliever he has become?

Peavy would be a great addition, but not if it prevents the Cubs from getting what they really need. Help on offense and to be more sound defensively up the middle.

info via bleedcubbieblue.com

If there were any lingering questions about whether the Cubs had pulled back from pursuing San Diego ace Jake Peavy in a trade, manager Lou Piniella answered them this week.

The Chicago Sun-Times' Gordon Wittenmyer asked Piniella at an event in Chicago on Sunday whether the Cubs were still pursuing starting pitching in the wake of their four-year contract extension with free agent right-hander Ryan Dempster.

"No," Piniella was quoted as saying in Tuesday's Sun-Times. "Starting we don't need. We're set. We've got six good starters, and they're all experienced. Getting Dempster back was the key. We're in good shape with our starting pitching. Bullpen-wise, [we're looking for] possibly one more experienced pitcher. We've got a lot of young kids out there."

...here's an idea, sign Kerry Wood then concentrate on lefty power bats.

Wittenmyer siad he was told by Pinella the deal for Peavy is history

Hallelujah

Pinella spoke highly of Ibanez

Forget Peavy. He ain't worth the $$ or the prospects. And please stop wasting your time by mentioning Tyler Colvin in trades. He is a completely worthless prospect with no trade value.

I would have to say that anyone that posts a 3.54 ERA in the majors is not a chump. Everyone gets lucky sometimes. I will take that ERA in our bulpen any day. We needed that with wood and that piece of junk howry leaving

agree with Jimk also are priority was not peavy but it would be really great if we did add him and of all the names mentioned for the right field position the best one for me would be abreu he would probably bat third and would be more of a threat than any other rf mentioned and im on the gregg bandwagen too he seems to be good up grade from howry

Well said JimK.

Any one who gives up a walk off hit to darryl ward is a chump.

Aaron....I checked out your blog piece.

One of your conclusions is that, because we traded 4 "top prospects" for Harden and Gaudin, we can trade 4 "major league ready" guys (Marshall, Hart, Cedeno and Pie) for Peavy. Another conclusion is that JH should have been able to trade them for Santana, Haren or Sabathia. You totally ignore the contracts that go or will go with Santana and Sabathia.

You further conclude that Thomas should get us Greene, Spears should get us Teahen and Colvin or Fox should get us Hermida. I just wish that any of those idea could work. The one remote possibility (like my Soriano to the Dodgers for Ethier and Pierre) would be the Pad's trade. Peavy would have to force the deal, and JH would have to find budget room. The latter is not likely unless JH can move a big contract, and then he would probably go for the good lefty bat.

JH did, admirably so far, turn our (not so) top prospects into a productive Harden and a maybe Gaudin. Murton hit .100 for the A's and EPat .174. One of our 4-5 prospects, Gallagher, was 2-3 with a 5.88 ERA. Donaldson did show some promise in A and AA. Beane apparently saw Harden as a very fragile arm and did the Cubs a favor. Other GM's, where normal health applies and free agency is not a threat, will not look to the guys you mention as being highly predictable for success.

I'm not understanding how you can call Gregg a "chump". In '07, he had a 3.54 ERA and gave up only 63 H in 84 IP. In '08, those numbers were 3.41, 51 and 68. Ceda is a solid prospect, but Gregg's numbers were in the bigs, and JH wanted a capable replacement for Howry. Yes, JH is playing small budget ball, but his focus seems to be on winning in 2009.

09shine... I couldn't agree with you more.

i don't trust carrie muskrat's opinion on anything

wooah cowboy.... Aaron first and foremost who ever said that Peavy was THE target for this off season? We have the number 1 rotation w/o Peavy. Pitching was not our problem theses last two playoffs appearances.....

What we do need to resolve sooner rather than later is to aquire a LH power hitting RFr. It would be great to get Peavey but this could be a tactic to draw attention on a rumor while working on very detailed discussions with the RF bat we need w/o the press convoluting those discussions with conjecture and rumors.

I believe Trader Jim has other deals on his mind. I would not be surprised if BR was again brought back into the rumor mill. After all, who saw the Rich Harden deal coming?

We only need a quality bat in RF and I advocate for DLee's trade value to be used in aquiring this RFr. Hoffpauir is ready and should be given a full uninterruptede year to prove himself.

GO CUBBIES!!

"like the Cubs prospects" but they do not "love them" and one of the players the Padres did like was Jose Ceda. Heyman said, "Those are some very real complications with the Cubs."

~exactly what I was saying about Hendry. The dude just doesn't think, and to think he gave up our top pitching prospect for a chump like Gregg just pisses me off even more. If that is the reason a 3rd team needs brought in, then Hendry should be fired immediately! If we lose out on Peavy because of that, Hendry must go.

At any rate, I encourage you all to check out my post in the community blog section. I touch on issues like this. It might be a good read, and I believe the research will be thought-provoking.

How can you say that you want Jim Hendry fired... that doesn't even make any sense he is the one who brought in D-Lee A-Ram Soriano Dempster all in good deals and signings. He has done nothing but worked hard to improve this team and he has.