I see Hudson pitch a lot for the Braves, and he would be a great fit for the Cubs. I can see a package of Marquis, Hill/Gallagher or Marshall, Veal or Ceda and perhaps Pie making that happen.

This is not good. If the brew crew get CC. they will be hard to beat. Not just by us, but by most of the league. We will half to answer back. Hopefuly we take are time, instead of just going out and taking the first deal that comes up. We need to make the right move here. So take your time Jim Hendry. We need another top starter! I like Marshall, Gallagher, but they will not make us contenders. They still need to develop. Not the two guys I would be counting on. Marquis is another one of those guys. I've been giving him the every chance, since the cubs signed him. I told everyone that it was a decent signing, but I can't say that anymore. He just sucks! He alsways seems to have that one or two bad innings, were he gives up 5 runs or more.He's best fitted for the five spot in the rotation. I just don't see us winning it all with Marshall, Gallagher or Marquis at the back of the rotation. right now it looks like this...
Zambrano
Lilly
Dempster
Marquis
Marshall/ Gallagher

Anyone who thinks that we can win with that rotation is just fooling Themselves. We are only ahead of the Cards and B-crew by a few games. All it takes is for ones of those teams to get hot and us to get cold or we just happen to run into some tuff games. 19 of the last 73 against these two are going to be hard. Really hard if we go into the last week close and have the final 3 games against the crew at Miller park. The cubs need to answer back in a big way!!! Hendry do whatever is necessary to get us a WS title.
GO CUBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Braves desperately need starter and relief help, and need to get younger. So Hudson for a package of young arms could likely work. They also might be interested in a Hoffpauer as local reports indicate they will have a tough time resigning Texeira in the off-season based on budget constraints.

I actually think we stack up well against the Cards and B-Crew in starting pitching. I think our top three of Z, Demp and Lilly are solid. The Cards can't sustain competitiveness with the likes of Wellemeyer in their rotation. And after CC and Sheets (who still needs to stay healthy in the second half) their rotation outside of that is very inconsistent and questionable.

I love the prospect of Tim Hudson (and actually would take him over CC). He's solid, mature, throws strikes, and is a great clubhouse guy. That's the guy we need to get.

Mark, I agree with you on all accounts. I never thought of Hudson before, but I would like to see him in the rotation.

I agree with Mark and Nick on Tim Hudson because he is coming from such a good pitching system under Bobby Cox. But Bryan, you sound as if you are willing to give up entirely too much for one player. It depends upon whether Hudson is signed for at least one more year beyond 2008. That would determine for me, how much I am willing give up. I would consider trading Marquis (because he would provide Atlanta with an immediate veteran replacement to their rotation). That's a fair trade off to start with. Then, I'd consider sending Marshall or Gallagher (either, not both) and then I'd throw in Felix Pie to complete the deal (he needs a change of scenery). But no more please, Hudson is just another piece to the puzzle, he is not a saviour!

Also, leave the Brian Roberts dela alone. We don't need to trade the bank for Brian Roberts. He is not batting any better than the combinaton already in place for the Cubs. We are more than adequate at that spot. Baltimore got too greedy this part spring, screw them! Let him leave the Orioles in free agency and we'll pick him up then. He will be more than anxious to sign with a team that has 40 thousand every day in the stands and, DeRosa's contract will be up by then.

I would toss up the farm for Harden if we could get him. He'd do some damage with a potent offense behind him. Hudson would be just as great, too. Imagine our top four including Z, Demp, Lilly, and either Hudson/Harden. Our fifth starter could be any of Gallager, Marshall, Marquis, or even Veal or Samarzdja (sp?) and I'd be happy with that.

As long as we don't get rid of any key valuable position players without getting someone to fill that role in return, I'd be fine with it. As long as we don't have to call up Patterson for a major bench role.

Guys, I can see the Braves entertaining young arms for Hudson (who would look great with us). Atlanta really needs to get younger in pitching (they have Smoltz out for the year, Glavine likely in his final year, and the never-ending DL occupant in Hampton). Jurrgeins is a young star, but I can see them interested in a Marquis, Hill, Ceda/Veal combination along with maybe a Pie or Hoffpauer.

I did see that Hill threw well yesterday...maybe he can make a turn for the better.

Also, in addition to a Hudson, I would really like to see a Murton for Maddux deal. Plug Maddux in with Z, Lilly, Demp and Hudson (along with a Marshall/Gallagher/Saramdzjia in the wings) and this would be fabulous.

Mike, now that rotation would be awesome. And it's really not far-fetched to make happen.

Greg....just to clarify I was was recommending that in exchange for Hudson we would offer up (1) Marquis, (2) one from Hill/Marshall/Gallagher, (3) one from Veal/Ceda, and perhaps Pie. BTW, Hudson is not a free agent this year.

I hear a lot of talk about Hudson, but there is no evidence out there to support that Hudson is available. I don't think the C C deal hurts us in head to head competition, we have almost all righty bats and have done well against him in the past. But long term, they will win more games, keep us on our toes and it may be tight going into the final week. I am leery about Harden, but we NEED another starter in the rotation first, then an arm in the pen. We have the offense, but Marquis is not going to last in the second half of the season, he never has. Marshall pitched great, but will it last, he is still fresh for the season though. The rest are fine in my mind. Burnett is a choice as well, what do you all think about him?

I hear a lot of talk about Hudson, but there is no evidence out there to support that Hudson is available. I don't think the C C deal hurts us in head to head competition, we have almost all righty bats and have done well against him in the past. But long term, they will win more games, keep us on our toes and it may be tight going into the final week. I am leery about Harden, but we NEED another starter in the rotation first, then an arm in the pen. We have the offense, but Marquis is not going to last in the second half of the season, he never has. Marshall pitched great, but will it last, he is still fresh for the season though. The rest are fine in my mind. Burnett is a choice as well, what do you all think about him?

The Cubs will try for improvements. Milwaukee will be 3 deep in strong pitchers because their young lefty Parra is in the Dempbster-Lilly class. The Braves will have a major re-build after this year, and Hudson will likely cost less than some are thinking. Maybe Gallagher, Ceda and Thomas. Hudson has faded some in June. He had two outings early giving up 1 run and two late giving up 6 runs.

Guys like Harden, Bedard and Hudson and a couple of our own are 5 or 6 inning pitchers. So a deep pen is likely as critical a need as another starter. I keep coming back to a veteran like Marte.

All teams have players on the rise and on the downslope. While all of Howry, Eyre, Cotts, Lieber and Wuertz won't hurt us in the second half, Eyre may be done and Cotts may not hold up. So I favor getting a top bullpen lefty.

The Mariners (for Bedard) may be most interested in our availables, including Hoffpauir who is absolutely destroying AAA pitching and Castillo. H's average is now in the .350 range. I think it will take a salary swap deal to move Marquis.
Given Bedard's favorable contract situation vs. Burnett's (for example), he may become a Cub.

I'm going to be a kill joy here. We did not land Sabathia because we do not have the talent down on the farm. It will be difficult to land any bigger name than Burnett unless the other GM is a Cub fan. Any deal will probably cost us Gallagher which would be fine by me if it is a guy like Burnett. Beane is to savy to let Harden go for a crap package of Marquis and anyone so lets be realistic. I highly doubt we have the prospects Atlanta is looking for Hudson (who has not even been declared available).

It is my opinion that our best bet is that Marshall can continue to pitch like yesterday and Gallagher keeps improving. I just don't see any impact arms out there that this organization can afford. Hope I'm wrong, I'm just not in the mood to dream after this bullshit deal the brewers just completed.

Rich Harden has pitched over 100 innings exactly twice in his career... He has not pitched over 80 innings in 4 years. You'd think after the history with Wood and Prior that there wouldn't be a need to drool over this guy. Steve Stone also just mentioned on 670 that Harden's velocity was down to 90-91 in his last start -- way down from his regular stuff....

Randy Wolf has had ERA's of 4.73 and 4.59 the last 2 years, despite pitching in the 2 most pitcher-friendly ballparks in the NL with the Dodgers and Padres....The guys a bum.. BIG NO NO there...

George Sherill? Baltimore is only 6 1/2 games out of the AL Wildcard and he is one of their best pitching talents -- forget that.

AJ Burnett has stunk this year... but assuming hes healthy (I haven't heard anything about a dip in velocity) he would be a much more realistic option -- and not a bad one..

A Maddux redux wouldn't be bad. He would benefit from our vastly improved outfield defense this year -- i can see him steadily maintaining a 3.8-4.0 ERA in the Cubs rotation -- which would be handily acceptable.

Baron, I agree with you about Maddux. It is a realistic option and he can keep us in ballgames.

Matt Cain anyone?

He's young but has veteran moxie.
Cubs would have him for years.
Giants were close to trading him last winter for Crede. They need offense.

He might not require more than Hoff., Patterson/Murton and a young pitcher

Paul: I like the idea of Cain very much...I just don't know if the Giants would trade him. He is still young and under contract for a few years. Seems as if they would want major league ready position players in return, which I'm not sure we have (Eric Patterson maybe).

I do like the idea of trading for Harden. So far, he has been healthy, and even though his velocity is down to 90-91, it may not be such a bad thing (putting less stress on his shoulder), and clearly, it is not affecting his pitching performances.. I think a deal of Veal, Ceda, Hoffpauir, Cedeno, and Pie could potentially get it done...

And, to add to my first point, I really don't think Matt Cain is the difference maker. We don't need a young arm signed for years as much as we need a big arm that could easily walk at the end of the year.

I don't think we need to panic over the Brew Crew getting Sabathia. First, if anyone but the Cubs were to get him they are the team I wanted. I don't expect the Crew to stay in the hunt. Sheets is a ticking time bomb for an injury. Plus....the Brewers just got hot in the last 2-3 weeks...they were scuffling along with Houston and Cincinnati and Pittsburgh for most of the first half. Did they just suddenly get better or are they playing over the heads?

To show what I mean...look at the Arizona Diamondbacks....they started 20-8 and everyone was all over how good they were and a young group...and they had Webb and Haren along with Owings and then a trip to Chicago and a nice sweep started them on a tailslide they have not pulled out of. The suddenly dominating Backs completely suck and are under .500 leading their division.

The point is that it is easy for a team to find a high streak to ride out....but can they maintain it. I don't think they can.

Now Sabathia will be on a team that probably will have no impact on the Cubs...as opposed to being on the Cardinals or any playoff team we might have to face.

I don't think we have a deep system, but we certainly have enough tradeable players. If Rich Hill can bounce back....THAT would be better than any trade we can make. If we can add Burnett or even Maddux I think we are ok. Because the Padres are still hanging in that crappy division Maddux might be a hard one right now until the last minute. Burnett however could come over now. The Jays are looking for a Short Stop.....I say the deal starts with Ronny Cedeno who could be a regular for some team....and throw in one or two others.

I think our bullpen is fine. We have enough players that we can shuffle in and out of AAA to keep em fresh.

Personally I think Neil's hypothetical deal for Hudson is the best thing I've heard all year. Realistically I think (and so do many, including Jayson Stark) that we have to add a 1-2 type guy, and Hudson would fit that niche very well. Z, Hudson, Demp, Lilly, and take-your-pick.

The question is whether or not Atlanta would be willing to deal him. Also, I agree with JimK (I think it was JimK!) who reminded us that a lefty in the pen is also what we need.

It's not panic time. Let's give Hendry time to pull something off here, and I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

hey guys...we really dont need to worry bout the brewers gettin CC. i mean think about it, he didnt even make the all star team this year.. carlos and big Z did.. so by the numbers, and i mean by this years numbers.. the cubs still have the best 1-2 punch in the NL. Also, the mets have pedro and santana, and an offense thats better than the brewers, and loook where there at. Honestly i would be more frightened if the brewers did somethin to improve there bullpen, thess we would have to worry

Jim Hendry has proven he is able and willing to pull off trades......

FLASHBACK......2003.....

The Cubs needed help and ol' Jim stepped up.

On July 23, 2003 he went to the Pirates and acquired Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton for Jose Hernandez, Matt Bruback and a player to be named which turned out to be Bobby Hill. Filled two very strong needs at that time, and 5 years later we have an outstanding All-Star Third Baseman a position that until he arrived had been a revolving door. (Wonder what Kevin Orie or Gary Scott are up to these days)

ONE WEEK LATER July 30, 2003 Jimmy picked up Doug Glanville from Texas for Jason Fransz and cash.

In a waiver deal a few weeks later August 17, 2003 Jim went back to the Pirates and picked up Randall Simon for Ray Sadler. Randall had a few clutch hits for us as I recall.

Finally in another waiver deal on August 19, 2003 Jim went to Colorado and picked up speedy Tony Womack for Enmanuel Ramires.

He set us up quite well for the playoffs. Unfortunately, he didn't see Bartman coming......

That off-season he tried to further strengthen the ballclub by ditching Damion Miller for Michael Barrett and one Hee Sop Choi for Derrek Lee.

TRADING DEADLINE 2004.............

Jim pulls off a dandy picking up Nomar Garciappara and Matt Murton. Too Bad Nomar couldnt stay healthy. I still remember that groin pull in St Louis coming out of the batters box....OUCH!!

In 2006 he tride to acquire some young talent by selling.....we got rid of Scott Williamson, Todd Walker and Greg Maddux in July deals.

Last year we didnt seem to need much, but we were weak at Catcher after trading Barrett to the Padres. So he picked up Jason Kendall from the A's on July 16, 2007.

In a waiver deal on August 31, 2007 he picked up Steve Trachsel from the Orioles for some picthing depth.

So, it's clear that Jim will not stand pat. He has been able to pull off some very good trades. 2003 was remarkable how he worked trades.

If he can work magic with Oakland for Rich Harden that will be great, but Oakland always demands ALOT in trades. A similar pitcher, Dan Haren, was dealt to the DiamondBacks (RICH in minor league talent) and the A's got 6 players back....including the 22nd and 36th rankde players in the nation! I don't think the Cubs can offer that strong of a package.

Plus, as I mentioned before, Oakland is in the hunt. It would be hard to justify trading Harden when they are in the pennant race. Hard to fill seats in August when your GM gave up on the season. I just dont see them as a viable option.

Preston, Joe S, and others;

CC didn't make the allstar team this year because he had a poor start to the season in which he gave up a ton of runs in a very short time. Since then, however, the guy has been straight nasty - ERA around 2.00, high K ratios, and frequently pitching through the 7th inning. If the Cubs had been able to nab him, they instantly become WS favorites IMO, and I think this move makes the Brew Crew instant contenders and a legitimate NL pennant threat: let's not forget which team ended last season only 2 games behind us. The Cubs need a guy who can be a #1 starter, and I while I wanted that to be CC (the Brewers didn't seem to give up too much to get him - I think we could have done better), it's time to look elsewhere. And soon.

Simion!I remember that guy !
Good chemistry dude that brought a lot of laughs and would swing at anything!

I'm agreement with several the people on this website. We didn't get CC because we dont have the prospects.

We're not going to be able to match what they did. But, we can get narrow the gap. Good move by Brewers. Hats off to them.

Hudson wont be an option till the Braves offer him up. I heard on the radio the other day that the Braves are scared to do a Salary dump because they are afraid that their fans will not react to well to it.

Hell they couldn't even sell out a first round playoff game whats going to happen when they start giving up their key players.

Maddox is a reasonable pickup and maybe Harden or Burnett. Possibly Bedard but I doubt it.

Anybody else would have to include key players already on the team like Theriot, Fontenot, Derosa, Cedeno.

Players that I think everybody can agree we cant get rid of or risk messing with the chemistry of the team.

we were a better team teh the Brewers(offense made up for the deficit in the pitching) but they may have caught up to us with this trade.

But if we can get two steady starters(maddox and/or burnett, harden. these are the reasonable options)
I think we will be ok. But we aren't going to be able to get a starter to matchup with Sabathia.

The Giants did not almost deal Cain for Crede. Supposedly the Sox wanted Cain or Sanchez and the Giants offered no more than Lowry. SF considered dealing Cain for Rios and then decided to hold on to their young pitching. Unfortunately Cain isn't going to be an option for us.

I like the Hudson idea if he's available. Harden would be great too. I agree with JimK that we could really use another lefty in the pen too. Fuentes would be a perfect fit and the articles I've read say that he is available for one top tier prospect (the Rays are currently thought to be the most likely destination).

Personally, I think the Brewers gave up a ton for a guy that is only going to make a few starts this year and then probably leave via free agency or take up the majority of the payroll. From what I have read, they gave up some very solid players. I liked that article someone posted a few days ago about how much of a difference starting pitchers actually make when traded for at the deadline.

I still want to see an upgrade over Marquis, but I'm not panicking yet. Ball is in your court Trader Jim, whatcha got?

I do not agree that trading DeRosa or Theriot would not mess with the chemistry on the team...that is crazy.

Theriot is our everyday shortstop at is in the top 10 for batting average and one of our speedier players. DeRosa is supersub and is an everyday player without a position playing second base but also filling in at Left and Right Field and Third Base. You dont trade someone like that. Of course those two would mess with team chemistry.

Cedeno...absolutely tradeable....and Fontenot....I'd prefer to hang on, but with the right trade would be willing.

OOOPS totally misread the comment which I responded too. Well, in any event I dont think it would mess with chemistry if we got rid of Cedeno, or even Fontenot with the right trade.

guys...all this trade talk is great...however, one thing Joe S forgot to mention was this:

-outside of Nomar, ALL of those trades that Hendry made were fleecing teams that were either rebuilding or sellers at the deadline or offseason

Therefore, you have to put EVERYTHING into context, so consider this:

-2003 Pirates trades: Pirates were clearly dumping salary, and virtually gave us Lofton, ARAM, and Simon
-2003 Rangers trade: Rangers were sellers and out of the race
-2003 Rockies trade: Rockies, like the Rangers, also were sellers, and out of the race

-2003 off-season deals: the A's simply swapped an underachieving Barrett for a solid veteran catcher, much like they did in 2007 with us (both deals btw, worked out fairly well for both teams--props to Hendry for getting Barrett, and unfortunately we had mostly bad teams that couldn't utilize his offensive skills), and obviously, the Choi for Lee trade was a salary dump by the Marlins
-2004 trade w/ BoSox and Twins: stroke of genius to get Nomar AND Murton for virtually nothing, but unfortunately, it didn't pay dividends for us at all, unless we can parlay Murton into a decent player this year at the deadline
-2006 trades as SELLERS: decent trades for us when we were out of contention, especially netting Ceda for Walker of all people---nice work by Hendry as a seller there
-2007 trade with Oakland: as mentioned earlier, it was essentially a salary dump by Oakland, swapping catchers
-2007 trade with Orioles: Worst trade in recent memory evoked visions of Garland for Karchner...looked bad at the beginning with Scott Moore immediately producing, but now doesn't seem all that bad---but still, VERY bad pick-up here

The reason I mention any of this is two-fold:
1) You cannot trade for top talent when you don't have top talent to trade
2) AND you cannot expect someone in contention like the Orioles (wild card) and A's, or Braves for that matter, to give up talent when they are still in contention

Therefore, you need to look at teams that are out of contention to see if they are willing to trade any big pieces. Usually, teams meeting that description are about 12 or more games out of contention at the All-Star break.

Teams that meet that description are as follows:
Mariners (18 games behind)-Bedard, Rowland-Smith, Rhodes
Indians (14 games)- Laffey, Kobayashi
Blue Jays (13 1/2 games)-pretty much anyone in their rotation, but doubt they'd trade McGowan or Halladay
Royals (12 games)-only pitcher likely to trade is a veteran like Mahay

Nationals (14 1/2 games)-Rauch, Perez
Pirates (12 games)-Marte, German, Capps, Grabow, Maholm
Astros (12 games)-Byrdak, Geary, Rodriguez, Brocail***not likely though, as I can't remember a trade with them in recent history, and outside of Brocail, those guys are fairly young

***the Giants, Rockies, and Padres at 11, 15, and 19 games under .500 respectively, probably might deal as well, even though they're 5, 7, and 9 games out respectively

It's possible the Giants might part with Hinshaw or Tachner, two young pitchers they're using in relief, but NOT Cain. Are you kidding me? Unless they get an All-Star gold glover like Crede, they'd never part with a young, effective starting pitcher. Same goes for Sanchez. They also might part with another relief in Yabu. It's also possible they might trade their closer Wilson for the right package, but seriously, you must be kidding yourselves if you think we have the right package to land Cain.

The Rockies might be willing to part with any high priced talent, veterans, or other guys like Buckholz (unlikely though) for the right package of prospects in return. The most likely to be dealt include Holliday and Fuentes, but if you believe the ESPN stats gurus, Holliday isn't that great of a pick-up based on his home-road splits---not a concern of ours though with Soriano in LF and Fukudome in RF, unless we move Fuku to CF, and place Holliday in RF...wishful thinking on my part there though.

The Pads might part with Meredith, Maddux, Wolf, Bell, and if you believe the rumors---even Peavy

So then, the next step would be considering the teams that meet the criteria and how they might help us out (our needs).

Currently, our only real needs are one more bench guy, unless we can get an excellent young OF like DeJesus from the Royals for CF, and we also need at least one SP if not two, and at least 2 relievers---one left, and one right, and if you listen to Piniella, he believes he needs POWER arms in the pen.

Anyway, I just don't know if you can expect any big names dealt to us unless Hendry gets a third team involved any discussions...Also, based on his history, unless a team is willing to unload a proven guy in a salary dump situation, it's fairly rare that he makes trades that benefit the team at the deadline....my worry, and foresight (though I hope I'm wrong) is that I believe Hendry will make a TERRIBLE Trachsel-type move just to say he did something...if he does that, then he's the worst GM in baseball, period, because he's proven nothing but being able to fleece teams that are dumping salary

Aaron,
I agree on Hendry.
I still think the A's may unload Harden, as they got rid of a 26 yr old pitcher (Haren) last year, who was still locked up in a cheap contract for a few more years. If you are serious about winning now, you don't get rid of young studs. It would be like us getting rid of Zambrano this year, and then saying we don't want to get rid of his equivalent the following year. They traded Haren for very raw prospects, so that trade was made for the long-term...likely to coincide with their new stadium being built, to usher in a new era for the A's.

Also...one man's trash is another man's treasure. While many, like myself, may be drooling over the prospect of Harden, a lot of folks in Oakland may be happy to get something for Harden before he gets injured again, because they have been burned too much by this guy (sort of like the Cubs and Prior).

I hope Rich Hill throws two no-hitters in a row in AAA, so we can package him away!

This just in: "Brewers sign Ray King to round out BIG THREE"

Joe S. made a great point about the D'backs adding Haren...and look where they are. I called my friend with this point earlier today, and naturally, he said that the Brewers have a better offense. But do they? Braun and Hart are doing well, but thats about it! So I'm not really that scared of a guy who pitches every five days. BP gave the Brewers an extra 1.5-2 wins from this move. Not enough in my opinion.

Isn't that the name of the game....to raid the teams that are out of it and salary dumping??? Thats why I have said before Harden from Oakland, Lowe from Dodgers are unlikely because of the pennant race those teams are in.

I live San Diego and there has been no mention of Peavy being dealt, nor could I imagine he would be. Very Highly Unlikely.

If Rich Hill throws two no-hitters in a row at AAA he needs to be back in our rotation not shipped off to another team. A left handed starter??? Are you kidding me? Especially if he regains form which helped him lead the team in strikeouts last year. Besides common sense tells you IF you want to trade him after the problems he had, get him back up to prove he is back on track and can get major league hitters out so you get better value in return. But no way if he shows he is back do I get rid of him without a shot at the rotation with us first.

now that cc sabathia has been traded, jim hendry must
get together with his braintrust & decide which move (s) would be best for the cubs. cain from s.f would be awesome; harden from oakland would be ok. hudson from atlanta as well. whatever jim hendry decides on,
he needs to make a move asap. remember: this is the year that the cubs are real. the song go cubs go is very emotional & all cubs fans want to hear it many more times & in the playoffs. lets go cubbies!@!!

Joe S...I don't know how long you've been visiting the site, so I'll give you a pass...and I might be wrong, but speaking for Jason B.---dude, he wasn't serious, man...he was being sarcastic like he does sometimes...I thought it was funny.

Of course if Hill pitches two no-no's, he'll be in the rotation

I know, I know that our primary focus is do we have enough, and what do we need this year? We have recognized our trading limitations and given JH ideas. With our 5 big payroll guys/ 7 all stars, we have more going for us than other teams. What will do us in (if we are) will be that our names didn't live up to them. I think we make the playoffs as is, but I will not be happy if JH doesn't make us better for the postseason.

If anyone has a moment for next year, will we be debating whether or not it will be worth it to give up 2 first round picks for signing either Sabathia or Sheets as free agents? Speaking of possible help this year and later, should we still have Hoffpauir and EPat available, I would put them and a prospect outside our top 4 in a deal with the Giants for Schierholtz (versatile AAA OF with tools, young lefty reliever Hinshaw or Espinelli (AAA)and Hi A pitcher Pucetas or Ben Snyder (now AA). Hinshaw or Espinelli would help us now in the pen, lefty hittig Schierholtz next year and the remaining pitcher in two more years. Hoffpauir starts for the Giants and Epat probably does too at 2B--and we don't have a place for them.