With the non-waiver trade deadline just around the corner, the rumor mill should be in full swing over the next few weeks. Jim Hendry has already made a big splash with the acquisition of Rich Harden, but 'Trader Jim' has stated he is always looking at ways to improve his team.
In the midst of the All-Star festivities, the San Diego Union Tribune ran a report that the Cubs "recently asked about" Khalil Greene. But as quickly as it was posted....it was removed in the same timely manner. The link is no longer there, but does that mean the Cubs are no longer interested? Or is it more of a case of the mainstream media running an unfound rumor?
Rumors surfaced this past off-season that the Cubs were interested in Khalil Greene. Kevin Towers, the Padres GM, mentioned several times through the mainstream media that he was interested in Matt Murton. Some thought there could be a deal worked out between the Cubs and the Padres that included Greene and Murton....but when the Padres signed Greene to a 2-year deal in February, those rumors went away.
Ryan Theriot had a very good first half offensively and at times showed solid defensive skills at shortstop. Theriot's line before the break was: .320/.394/.369/.763 with 12 doubles, 41 walks and 33 strikeouts in 87 games, 347 at bats....and Lou Piniella refers to him as a spark plug in the lineup. But defensively is where his skills must improve in order for the Cubs to succeed in the second half. So.... Are the Cubs looking for an upgrade defensively at short and at the same time attempt to strengthen their bench?
First, Khalil Greene has struggled this season offensively in San Diego and is hitting just above the Mendoza Line (.216/.264/.329/.593/11 doubles/8 home runs/85 strikeouts in 92 games, 343 at bats). His home-road splits are just about even (at PETCO: .219/.291/.354/.645/2 doubles/6 home runs/16 walks and 41 strikeouts in 52 games, 192 at bats. On the road: .212/.228/.298/.526/5 doubles/2 home runs/5 walks and 44 strikeouts in 40 games, 151 at bats) and not exactly what the Padres thought they were getting after he hit 27 home runs a year ago (2007 stats: .254/.291/.468/.759/27 home runs/44 doubles/32 walks and 128 strikeouts in 153 games, 611 at bats). Greene's offensive numbers are nowhere near Theriot's and many feel his struggles at the plate are one of the reasons the Padres are in last place.
Greene finally started hitting in June (.274/.327/.432/.759/3 home runs and 4 doubles in 25 games) but regressed dramatically before the break (July: .088/.139/.088/.227 just 3 hits in 10 games, 34 at bats).
Lou Piniella preached time and time again before the season began he was concerned about the depth on his roster. Injuries to key players over the past 6 weeks (Soriano, Zambrano, Johnson, Theriot, Fukudome, Edmonds) and demotions of players that figured to play huge roles in the 2008 campaign (Hill, Pie and Wuertz) have not given Piniella the chance to rest players like he reportedly wanted to. Piniella has blamed the lack of rest on the recent struggles at the plate of Kosuke Fukudome....and there figures to be more signs of a long season as the team plays through the summer heat over the next 6 weeks. While Mike Fontenot has stepped up in several key spots, Ronny Cedeno has disappeared and despite the fact Henry Blanco was not called upon much in the first half, Mr. White figures to get a lot more playing time in the second half.
Greene is owed a lot of money to be just a role player (signed a 2-year deal in February of 2008 that voided his last two years of arbitration eligibility. Owed remainder of $4.5 million dollar salary for this season and is scheduled to make $6.5 million in 2009 with four possible increases based on plate appearances. $125,000 each for 525, 550, 600 and 625 at bats) but the old excuse, "change of scenery", could be what he needs. Not only would he play in a more hitter friendly park (on some days) but he might benefit from a winning team and a new hitting coach (career numbers at Wrigley: .200/.236/.400/.636 with 3 home runs and 4 doubles in 16 games, 65 at bats).
Depending on what Hendry would have to give up, trading for Greene could turnout to be a good addition to an already solid team. Greene would give Piniella an above average (to excellent) glove at short and would allow Ryan Theriot to possibly move to second base. With Theriot at second, Mark DeRosa could continue to play all over the field and give his teammates regular days off without losing much either offensively or defensively.
Pitching and defense wins a lot of games, especially toward the end of a long season. Ryan Theriot should be on the field and in the lineup, daily, but if Jim Hendry can find a way to add a player with the defensive skills of Khalil Greene, without giving up too much, it is a trade that must be done.
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Neil:
Making a statement on K. Greene! Would you deal for Renteria if the price is right?
At verbadum, my thoughts exactly.
Jim...no. Are the Tigers going to deal him? They gave up a bunch.
Matt, are you agreeing with Jim or trading for someone like Greene... Just curious.
Neil's key words about a trade for Greene are "without having to give up too much". So, is this too much: Cedeno, Veal and Castillo for Greene?
The rebuilding Pads would likely trade Wolf and a 7-10 prospect too for Pie and Ascaino. Should we do that? Wolf is a capable veteran lefty who can start or relieve.
I would do the Wolf deal, but not the Greene deal. Greene has only 7 errors to Theriot's 11 and is a low average hitter with some power vs. Theriot's high average and no power. I recognize both could play at the same time and that G is a plus fielder. But G's salary cost may be a negative looking ahead. It's going to take big bucks to re-sign Dempster and Wood--2 free agents that come to mind--and I'd rather have Dempster and Wood.
Theriot's ability to get on base has been very helpful, and he's at least adequate at SS. Castillo is looking like another Soto--with less power--but a good hitter with Pudge-like defensive abilities.
I'm agreeing with every bit of what your saying Neil.
Especially this:
"...trading for Greene could turnout to be a good addition to an already solid team. Greene would give Piniella an above average (to excellent) glove at short and would allow Ryan Theriot to possibly move to second base. With Theriot at second, Mark DeRosa could continue to play all over the field and give his teammates regular days off without losing much either offensively or defensively."
SS is a defensive-first position...its tough. Theriot's bat belongs in the lineup somewhere as long as he is hitting like he is.
DeRosa will move around regardless and without Khalil's addition, especially in the stretch drive when players like Rami, Theriot, Lee, Fukudome and Soriano need days off.
Having Greene's glove and maybe a revitalized bat in addition to Theriot's renewed glove-work at second could be a championship minded move to make.
IF the money could work itself out..
Although I agree with you JimK. How much is 4 and 6 mil a year respectively really? Thats more of a question than a responce. I want to know is that too much?
And one other thing:
The Theriot fan in me is still worried about a September/October collapse.
Theriot would probably receive far less criticism from Cub fans if he would have finished the second half with the .285 average he finished August with. Dont you think?
Lou doesnt seem to trust Cedeno AT ALL. For whatever reason that fact speaks alone for how much burden and work load Theriot may get in this second half. Im afraid he'll collapse again unless he gets someone to fill in from time to time.
One last thing:
Haha, Neil.
You devoted a whole peice on Khalil Greene even after the story was pulled (for whatever reason they pulled it).
Is this because the story interests you? Or do you think it has legs?
Matt...Greene's $6.5 mil in 2009 might become important in this way. Next year we may drop Eyre, Howry and Lieber's amoutnts (15 mil.) dropping our payroll to 103 mil. If JH gets a payroll increase to $130 mil., he has $27 mil to work with.
Dempster and Wood might take $6 mil more than this year each or $12 mil. Edmonds and Gaudin might split $10 mil. Our added lefty (if we add) might take $5 mil., and our 2009 budget is gone. Maybe the budget goes $5 mil. higher, but that goes to Johnson, Soto, Theriot and the other non-arbitration elgible guys in small increases. There is Marquis's $9.9 mil in '09, but one way or the other, we likely get to pay most of that.
My question to you. Would you trade Cedeno, Veal and Castillo for Greene?
I would not trade Cedeno, Veal and Castillo for just Greene.
Maybe they would take Marquis. He would like pitching in Petco.
Maybe get Maddux or Wolf in return. He's making 9 and 10 Mil respectively.
I would give up those 3 and maybe some lower tier guy is we got Greene and Maddux/Wolf.
I like Khalil but I like Castillo and Veal more right now.
Jim K-
10 million between Edmonds and Gaudin? Bit of a stretch. I believe Soto will be the big financial obligation after and allstar appearance and rookie of the year.
Matt-
I think Neil was filling an off day and trying to keep us all blogging.
Matt, this rumor is very interesting to me. This is at least the second or third time the Cubs and Greene have been mentioned in the same sentence since January. I think the Cubs are looking for another infielder and I feel if Cedeno was not out of options, he would already have been sent back down.
Hendry and Towers have a history and I wonder if the Padres are ready to move on. Greene has not shown any improvement, offensively, since 2004.
So to properly answer your quetion....I am interested and I think it has legs.
That is a great song by ZZtop!
Castillo, Cedeno, Veal and maybe a mid-tier prospect for Greene and either Wolfe or Maddux seems like a fair deal that would help both teams.
I can't see the Cubs bringing Edmunds back next year. Decent chance Johnson isn't back either. Soto will only be entitled to a small increase in pay since he is not arbitration eligible yet.
Not a classic rock guy Agustin.
I'm a grunge kid. =D
I can see Ward and Reed back. Edmonds not so much, although a part of me would like to have him back if he would sign cheap and keep producing.
I feel ya Neil. Im not sure it has legs, but I do find it interesting and hope it does.
I can't wait for game day...this waiting sucks!
I'd like to see a move made to add a veteran IF to our bench, but I do not want to see a deal that puts Theriot or DeRosa on the bench. Greene is too expensive to come off the bench and a liability at the plate. The Cubs have proven that they won't tolerate poor hitting even if your defense is great (Pie). I doubt Craig Counsel would be available to the Cubs, but a player like that is what the team needs. Low profile, inexpensive, clutch performer.
Khalil Greene? Arguably the most over-hyped prospect that has been a bum hitter basically... He plays some nice defense but is probably worse than Hank White as a hitter
Greene is a complete waste of time. Cedeno is a better all-around alternative. The Johnson/Edmunds CF platoon is proving to be a winner so far (not to mention financially). Neither will be back unless they are willing to take low dough as a backup. Pie and Hill need to get it together in AAA so they have max value for a trade in the off-season. Hendry is in a perfect position to listen to offers right now for the stretch run. Doubt anyone will be moved unless it's another spare parts deal for a lefty reliever.