Whoever mentioned Boston trading for Marquis has been hitting the hash pipe a little too hard....

I live in Boston now and Marquis would simply be cannon fodder for the obnoxious evening drive guys on ESPN 890.

Have you seen the Red Sox rotation? Marquis would consider it an honor to polish Beckett's boots in the morning, serve Schilling breakfast in bed, fillet Dice-K's sushi and wash Papelbon's car...

Forget the pitching part..

Every team that has looked at Colon's medical records has gotten away from him quickly. I think that is telling.

I do agree with Aaron on Ronny Cedeno. The kid is young, and while he hasn't made that solid transition from success in the minors to the pro's yet, it took Rich Hill quite a while as well. In fact, I remember many of us, myself included, who felt he may always be a AAAA guy but never a pro. RC may still be able to make that transition, and I'm pulling for him to do so.

Aaron I was with you on Colon, but I am pretty sure that he had to leave some winter games with health issues. They said his fastball was topping out at 88. I will try to find the link that I saw it on.

Roger? ...it is also a hundred years of rape, theft and murder..._William Wallace

Aaron;

1-I hate Guillen

2-Forget Adam Dunn that will never happen [Dusty’s Vendetta]

3-Bay could be the guy, but who's in Center? FuKu?

4-I take Lieber over Marquis/Dempster any day; one of the last two needs to go for prospects or backups.

5-IF Gallagher, Marshall, Cedeno,Murton,Pie,Colvin and Samardja get us both, Roberts and Bedard...it is a done deal. Get Lofton/Fuld combo in center and give Hart/Ceda a shot at the rotation.

BTW; the only untouchable in my book is Vitters

*To me Fuku is the best addition in the National League so far.

**If nothing else happens, then we have not taken care of these teams issues. Which are the same three since the playoffs:

1-Ace SP

2-solid Middle Infielder

3-CF

***I do give JH credit for the resigning our free agents the last two years, going back from Aramis to Wood. STILL THIS ARE NOT ADDITIONS, it only leaves us where we were and that was not good enough.

JH get Bedard or Santana and I will not ask Aaron to tell the truth any more. I honestly do not understand what it is that you are waiting for. It is not your money or prospects, you probably will be fired regardless of what you do or not do…Didn’t you saw that movie Cocoon? When all those old guys found out they were leaving earth to go to another planet., they started to get huge loans to give money away because THEY WERE NOT GOING TO PAY FOR IT. Do the same, and maybe, just maybe if you win the World Series…the next owner have no other choice than to stick with you because he would seem foolish in the eyes of baseball to let you go. [I for one would protest for you]

Aaron...you should have stayed quiet. All this negativity....jeesh!

It's just a game and a sport.

Aarons got a plan. (1) He arms the buyers of the Cubs with this report. (2) They buy the team on the cheap. (3) They have money left to pay Santana, Colon and Roberts. Cubs Win! Cubs Win!

okay Agustin...you twisted my arm...I guess I'll talk.

You want my opinion, so here you go...

1) Besides Fukodome and Ascanio (though we don't know yet if he'll make the team), how exactly is this team any different? Don't give me this crap about "addition by subtraction" with Jones, Prior, Ohman, or Floyd either...it's a bogus argument, because there was no real additions to speak of so how in the hell could that argument hold up? What, we replaced Jones with Fukodome, who is untested at the MLB level, and could end up being a Kaz Matsui for all we know...or even worse, So Taguchi.

2) Look, I did NOT like the Jones signing to begin with, but the dude was slightly above average at the plate, and caught up to some balls in the OF that most outfielders couldn't get. We have a complete UNKNOWN quantity in Fukodome.

3) So Ascanio pretty much replaces Ohman in the pen. Hmmmmmmmmm...given his brief MLB stats, 13 games, 16 innings, 17 hits, 3 hr, 11 runs, 9 earned, 6BB, 13 K's, 1.43 WHIP, 5.06 ERA...yup, seems like the savior of our bullpen right there....

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/jose-ascanio.shtml

His minor league stats are very underwhelming to say the least as well. I loved to hate on Ohman too, but how exactly is this an upgrade? hmmmmmmmmmm

4) How exactly does an aging veteran soft-tossing, finesse pitcher like Lieber, (38 yrs old) improve our staff? It's like an aging version of Jason Marquis......blechhhhhhh.......he's been about league average his whole career in terms of ERA, and gives up a lot of hits...granted his walks are very low, and his WHIP looks better because of that...But imagine if he can't find the zone, which seemed to be the case last year---sure he was injured, but could that be a sign of things to come? hmmmmmmmmm, very curious move.....Exactly why couldn't we have forked over a little more with greater incentives for Colon----at least he can throw it by people if he gets in trouble, rather than pitching to contact, and praying the guy hits it at someone like Lieber

5) So......we trade away our insurance policy in CF for a no-name mid-grade pitching prospect and no talent minor league OF. THis is the same Pagan that Hendry once compared to Beltran's skills. IT's a curious move, given the fact that we need to be ADDING OF talent, rather than trading it away, especially after losing Jones and Floyd. Hendry must think that a cast of Kroeger, Hoffpauir, Patterson, and Andres Torres--who?---yeah, exactly----can handle the OF in case Pie flops in full-time service.

6) I would've loved to have signed Jose Guillen as insurance---even with the drug shadow....Hell, Hendry wants to go after an admitted abuser in Roberts, so why couldn't he have plucked Guillen without giving up any talent. The one move I agree with NOT doing is actually one I wanted really bad---Josh Hamilton. Hamilton, with only 1/2 a year of experience and a past drug history did NOT warrant that many top tier prospects, and I think the Rangers totally got hosed on that one...It would be the equivalent of giving up Gallagher and Marshall in the same deal for a question mark guy with huge potential..........hmmmmmmmmmmmm....I don't know where I heard it---must've been a bad dream----but Hendry was rumored to be sending Gallagher, Marshall, Cedeno/Murton, AND possibly Colvin or Pie for Roberts---another drug user, though in a performance enhancing way and not a behavioral altering way---which would actually be more palatable, because at least you know athletically what you're getting is REAL and not inflated by anything.....boy, am I glad that was just a bad dream that Hendry was actually contemplating that trade with Baltimore......hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

7) I honestly think Cedeno should be given a shot at SS---yeah, I know I was a huge critic of him....but who else is out there for us? Theriot should be improved after some off-season rest, so that's not a big issue for us...but what is a big issue is....

8) Starting pitching....Outside of Z, Lilly, and Hill, we have NOBODY. Gallagher is unproven, Marquis plain sucks, Dempster is unknown and hasn't been a healthy starter in a number of years---and when he was, he only had ONE good season, and was otherwise WAY below league average....that's not exactly a great plan at the back end is it....Count an aging Lieber in there, and we have the 3 stooges at the back end of the rotation-Dempster as Larry, Marquis as the attitude with Moe, and Lieber the dopey one as Curly. I guess the only saving grace would be if someone like Ceda, Samardzija, Hart, Veal, or Gallagher would shine in Spring Training, and give management a reason to get rid of at least two of those jokers---Dempster and Marquis.

9) The bullpen actually doesn't worry me that much, but then again, it didn't at the outset of last year, and then they became the cardiac kids day in and day out....so it's really a crapshoot

10) My final conclusion....see how Pie does in ST, and Fukodome as well...If we need to go out and get someone, I'd say make a run first at Dunn, then Bay, and Nady, in that order....I'd also keep a close eye on a "clean" Roberts to see if his production falls off. I would love to see the Cubs trade for Bedard, and I wish that we could take a chance on Colon if Dempster or Marquis is traded. If I could find a taker for Dempster or Marquis, I'd trade them for middle infield prospects, and a power hitting OF prospect.

Anyway, that was long, but I've been quiet for awhile

I also am waiting for another deal.

Me estoy yendo a la cama.

JimK, you might be on to something there.

Still, Boston has probably one of the strongest and deepest rotation in the MLB with Beckett,Schilling,Matsuzaka,Lester,Wakefield, and the only unprooven guy Mr.No hitter Clay Buchholz. Not to mention Papelbon could join that party. Where exactly would you fit Jason Marquis? maybe he could sub for Wally the team mascot.

Seriously I think they have too much starting pitching there...unless they trade Lester/Buchholz...then Marquis is a better option than Ace Tavarez! LOL

Oh well I kind of need Aaron to call out on JH some more and get him worked up, and remember me of the 100years and that JH trade giving up Dontrelle and don't even mention that Juan Pierre Derby!!!!!LOLOLOL! Aaron say something so, so that we can start a fight here...please men. This waiting is making me bored.

Give me BEDARD or SANTANA

agustin...It might take a fair amount of Grey Goose and some orange juice, but Epstein and JH would exchange this question, "What's your biggest pain in the a.. going into the season?" One would say Marquis and the other Crisp. A deal would get done with JH possibly having to say, "OK, I'll switch Dempster for Marquis."

Remember that Schilling, Timlin and Wakefield are 125 years old and Tavarez and Pineiro had ERA's over 5. Marquis did win 12 with a 4.50 ERA--even with some trouble disguising his pitches in the second half.

By the way, did anyone notice the wiring in Lieber's elbow on the Cub site? Those are either scary tendons or a bad job with number nine wire!

JimK...Lay off that pop-corn. LOL! Marquis would never be allowed near Boston. We do need to get rid of him now. The way he finished last year and the way he was treated be Lou...I bet he is either out, or on the Penn.

JH is not happy with me (above). He wants to get to the Series. And the more Series likely Red Sox want some reassurance as spring training reveals that some of their old, old pitchers' just might be fading quickly. The Red Sox have Ellsbury and an unhappy Crisp.

A deal is made from strengths to help both teams. Red Sox get Marquis, Marshall, Donaldson and Petrick.

Cubs get Crisp, Lars Anderson (1B--20 years old) a Mark Grace with power, and Oscar Tejada (ss--18 years old) a Shawn Dunston clone.

Both teams meet future needs and Crisp joins Roberts as proven veterans up the middle. To some extent Crisp (2 years $13 million and Marquis (2 years $16 million) are salary swaps but both are contributors too. JH now gets an A+ on the performance scale, and the Cubs win the NLCS.

If the roster stays the same I would say we will see Fukudome in the 2 or 5 spot depending on this performance during the spring.

What do you guys think about were Fuko should hit?

My opinion is second. Reasons are that it will take a while for him to get use to Major League pitching and it will help him to make the adjustment with Lee, Ram, and Fonz(in whatever order) behind him. See how everybody that went into that spot last year(Theriot, Fontenot, Jones, etc.) ,all of the sudden, went on a hitting streak.

Of course, we dont know who will be leading off yet but in either case Soriano or Roberts(maybe Pie) I still think this is his best bet for a good career in the majors.

The odds are too long for Dave's take. We get Roberts. The Reds get Bedard because they have more of the major league ready pieces that MacPhail needs. And the battle is on among us, the Reds and the Brewers for supremacy in the Central.

Almost all of us give JH an A--A- for Musha, Roberts and Lieber. We hope that a trading deadline deal is available for Burnett--when he will likely be needed. Cubs win 90 regular season games.

Who's Mark Prior?

Dave.............I hear you! But why not both Bedard and Roberts for the farm and we keep DeRosa in 2nd and Roberts in SS? Then Theriot can be the supersub.

Oops.. I meant the Twins complete the Santana deal w/ the Mets eliminating them from the Bedard derby....sorry

Here's an idea: Let's all pray JimK is somewhat right except for the fact:

1)Adam Jones playing in Venezuela signals the M's are out of the Bedard running.

2) The Twins complete the Johan Santana deal eliminating them from the Bedard running.

3) The deal isn't for Brian Roberts, it's for Erik Bedard!

I'm against Mark DeRosa not getting 425+ AB's. Getting Roberts will all but ensure he doesn't see full time AB's this season.

Rotation - Big Z, Bedard, Lily, Lieber, Hill

Bullpen - Hart, Lahey, Azcanio, Howry, Eyre, Marmol, Wood

We always have Neil Cotts as a lefty if we need him and Donnie Veal who seems better suited for the pen than the rotation long term.

Sorry to take a shot at you [Paul K]...but you are like a full month behind with your MP comment. Besides one thing has nothing to do with the other. Lieber is just a good 5th starter that could take Marquis or Dempster away of the rotation...and that is good for me.

JimK...stop, the O's management, players and forums suck. Stop reading that stuff it is bad for your Cubbie blood.

The O's Fans Forum has an item that ESPN 1000 in Chicago says the Cubs and O's have a 3 player deal for Roberts--to be announcded during the Cubs Convention. I have no clue if this is more B.S. or not.

Prior was the real risk Paul, both injury wise, and also because he refused to sign anything more than a one year deal, with no option. So if he sucked we still paid for his year, (yet again), and if he had a great year he still would be testing the free agency market next year and the Cubs would lose out. No loyalty.

Lieber wanted to be a Cub, Prior did not!

I cannot f'ing believe people are still bringing up "MP" Shh... that's like dropping the F-bomb in church. He's gone, & should be forgotten. Good riddance nancy boy Mark. Much luck & success doing the "towel drill" & in your "simulated World Series" games. The only mound he'll be getting on this upcoming season belongs to his wife!

Ciao purse toter!

I cannot f'ing believe people are still bringing up "MP" Shh... that's like dropping the F-bomb in church. He's gone, & should be forgotten. Good riddance nancy boy Mark. Much luck & success doing the "towel drill" & in your "simulated World Series" games. The mound he'll be getting on this upcoming season belongs to his wife!

Ciao purse toter!

I don't see how signing Leiber is a bad move. He's not going to hurt you in anyway. He's a vet, a good clubhouse guy, is willing to pitch out of the pen if need be and didn't cost very much. If nothing else he's simply an insurance policy. This move isn't going to set the world on fire, but there really is no downside to the signing. Hopefully JH has a few more tricks up his sleeve, but I'm pretty happy with the team as is. Anything else would be icing on the cake really. The rotation is competant, not great, but they'll eat up innings and keep us in most games. It'll be the 2003 rule: if we score 4 or more runs we'll win. (The Cubs had an insane winning percentage in '03 when scoring 4 or more runs.) I'd like to see another top end pitcher, but we'll be just fine with the current roster too.

Go Cubbies!!!

Say what you want about him, but I think that money would have been better spent on Mark Prior. If he would have been even semi-healthy by the end of July, he would have brought something in the trade market.

Wasted money. I seriously hope Hendry has something else up his sleeve.

I meant to put "...during the Sox games on WGN."

Here is a deal that I think will help out the Cubs immensely. Trade Marquis and Cedeno to the South Siders for Steve Stone and that hotdog vender you can hear yelling "HOTDAAAAWG" on TV during the Sox games on TV.

Watch out Yankees! Watch out Red Sox!

The Orioles got Freddie Bynum at short!

Miller was a power pitcher with reduced zip after the injury. Lieber is more like Maddux in relying on control, his best pitcher is a sinking groundball pitch and has held opposing hitters to a low OBP. A lot of his pitches will be put in play and he will give up hits and home runs and needs the offense to score 5 runs per game. That said He is much less of "lightening in a bottle" candidate than Miller and the higher dollars in the contract demonstrate his higher market value and chance to provide meaningful innings and value.

The difference between Miller and Leiber is, Leiber is coming off of foot surgery not arm surgery.

Is it just me or does anyone else see Jon Lieber as a more expensive Wade Miller? Aging starter, coming off injury, we're thinking we can depend on him to take the fifth spot, and he hasn't had a decent season in 3 years. Wade didn't work out so well for us last year. A lot can be said for depth but this just doesn't make much sense unless we can get another strong starter.