Insane list Aaron, I tip my hat. The sad part is that it helps confirms what I suspected...that we don't have the bullets to aquire anything of value unless we touch our young kids from the mlb roster. Marmol/Soto could probably land anything we want but would we want that? Vitters and Samardija would be the other two with incredible high ceilings...all the others are long shots.

Thanks I appreciate it Aaron.

Aaron, great list, very insightful, thank you.

Baseball America doesn't rate a single Cubs farm talent in the top 20 prospects in the Arizona Fall League.

It also ranks the Cubs farm system 18th out of 30 teams...

Why is anyone concenrned about retaining what is really dodgy, medicore farm talent... Hendy has traded away. Look at Dontrelle Willis... Detroit traded 2 of the top 10 prospects in baseball for him and Cabrera.

Are any of these minor leagures going to be HUGE difference makes in the next 2-3 years.... DUMP them all -

Everyone seems happy with somehow scraping by and winning the NL central.. Its kinda sad.

Baron,

you're right...nobody wants much of what we have to offer.....

I almost forgot to add Micah Hoffpauir to the equation, though I think it's a foregone conclusion that we'll lose him in the Rule V, which is a shame, because I think he'd do just fine for us in the bigs

Aaron, I agree great list. But one thing, did you notice most of the players you mentioned were drafted by Tim Wilken?

I do not think anyone will take Brian Dopirak in the Rule 5 draft. He was DFA's last year and when no one picked him up he signed a minor league deal.

On the players you mentioned (Hoffpauir, Harvey and Kroeger), I do not think any of those players will be taken in the Rule 5 draft. Richie maybe, like BA mentioned, but not these guys.

The minor league deal that Kroeger just signed with the Cubs included a non roster invite to Spring Training...he could make waves.

Aaron,

that is a very good and detailed analysis of some players I didn't even know.. However, it seems no team with major talent to trade has ANY interest in our farm talent..

Aaron,

Great list!!!

I think the last star power hitter we developed was actually named in your post ... Joe Carter.

Agustin,

I am going to separate our system into a few obvious categories with an explanation of the players and ranking in terms of closest to majors:

PITCHERS:

Marshall-top performer and proven, could be valuable in trade

Hart- slated as swing-man in bullpen on roster

Gallagher- possibly our top pitching prospect; excelled at every level but majors, perhaps because he was rushed

Holliman- arguably our best performer in the minors last year, pitched no-hitter, and excelled in AFL

Ascanio- fire-baller just acquired, and possibly part of 25 man roster equation if we get rid of Wuertz

Veal- once very promising pitcher had off year; it could've been because he was overlooked and unhappy as he was passed by Gallagher; Neil and I met him at ST last year and him and his friend seemed upset he wasn't invited to the big camp like Gallagher

Samardzija- fireballer needs to work on more pitches to be effective...could be second coming of a Prior or Wood-type

Atkins- don't know much, other than scouts say he is a good prospect

Ceda- acquired from Pads for Walker, and is a HUGE prospect with excellent velocity, but needs command

Roquet- reliever who excelled last year and is promising in that role

Cuevas- 6'10" righty who missed time due to injury last year, and has HUGE upside as well

Papelbon- one of Jon's younger twin brothers; started as reliever, then switched to starting where he excelled in Peoria

Russell- drafted and signed late from Texas; more of a finesse pitcher, but scouts said he was the real deal

Pawelek- former top pick, must prove he's healthy and can move up----VERY FAST---or he'll be gone

Maestri- All-Star at Peoria, but not much known other than he pitched well for Italy in the World's this year

Hernandez- fireballer who scouts think could be a big factor one day

Huseby- fireballer, former high pick who they've waited to develop...hopefully patience pays off

Acosta- Oscar's son, and considered a top prospect by many

INFIELDERS:

Cedeno- if he can ever get past his AAAA designation, and trasfer his triple-A numbers, he'd be amazing (see Pie, Felix)

Chirinos- not much known other than numbers, which indicate he has a high OBP and plays SS

Reynolds- plays 3B and OF, and hit well upon his promotion

Dopirak- former top prospect must perform up to his pre-injury stats or be let go if he isn't already selected in the Rule V...Remember when Lee got hurt, and he would've been called up if it weren't for his foot injury?

Thomas- just drafted, and a HUGE 2B prospect....(dreaming...if only he could play SS). He hits well, runs well, and has decent power

Lansford- Carney's son (no, not the circus folk), is considered to be a top prospect by some

Donaldson- just drafted; would be huge prospect if he was better defensively at catcher...they've tried him at 1B, and he hit extremely well

Johnston- former top prospect fell off the map after not producing offensively...SS prospect

Vitters- top prospect this year....hit like crap to start, but turned it on at the end of the year...huge power potential

CATCHERS:

Soto- well, guess you can't include him anymore

Ritchie- good numbers, former higher draft pick; possible RULE V pick for someone

Mercedes- don't know anything much other than he was supposed to be good offensively; possible RULE V apparently

Clevenger- some scouts like him for IF, while others have said he's moving up the ladder quickly

Robinson- acquired from Tigers and once considered a top prospect, but he struggled mightily offensively last year

OUTFIELDERS:

Pie- make or break year

Fuld- great speed, defense, and AFL numbers; should compete with Pie, but is not an overwhelming prospect

Kroeger- once top prospect of the D-Backs, and rushed too quickly (think Corey Patterson for us); absolutely mashed the ball last year

Patterson- could be considered IF as well; most likely to be traded after his antics last year showing up late, etc.

Colvin- perhaps the most major league ready outside of Kroeger...moved up very fast, though his OBP could be a lot higher

Harvey- another make or break year if he's not selected in RULE V; huge huge power, but OBP is abysmal and injuries have mounted

Carter- nephew of Joe Carter; huge power, but K's avg, and OBP don't impress

Camp- young, decent potential

Burke- former top pick of Padres; could be a huge find for us in the Barrett deal; has HUGE upside and performed well late last year

Rundle- scouts considered him last year to be on the rise, but he fell off the map...it be interesting to see if the hype matches talent

Rea- drafted last year and performed well

***As you can see, we're lacking significant talent in infield and outfield prospects....it's really sad, and pretty pathetic that that's the case....Think about other teams: Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Cabrera, Maybin, Hanley Ramirez, Hermida, Ellsbury, Swisher, etc., etc. We just don't see any of those type of position prospects EVER come through our system....And don't even say Grace......I mean, just think about it...when was our last power prospect that we developed...our last decent hitter? Ernie Banks? Ron Santo? Billy Williams? Can you think of any other team that's had that kind of bad streak?

Anyway, I know it was long, but I hope some of you think it was beneficial and might help in discussion about who we can trade and what not

I'm with Austin on the Det/Fla deal. I believe both teams got a great deal. Willis has been on a steady decline. Cabrera is a stud. But the tigers gave up three (and no one knows much about the other minor leaguers) studs in the making.

On ESPN's winter meeting blog ...

Cubs have almost no shot at Josh Hamilton - Reds admit having him on the block but don't wan to trade him in the division

Yeah Jim...it has been a cold winter here too this year. Yesterday it dipped below the 84 degree mark and it also rained for more than an hour. [Global warming?]

It's not news, I know, but money is huge in deals involving players like Cabrera and Willis and Santana. Not many teams can either add or keep $20 million a year types as these guys are or will be. So the Yankees and Red Sox battle over Santana, in part to keep the other team from getting him. Nearly everybody else decides they can't afford to lose the players required and the additional payroll dollars. Florida accepts two top prospects and four good prospects hoping to combine an indoor stadium and maturing prospects into a workable financial situation in the future.

Detroit isn't (wasn't) overly committed to big salaries.

I suspect the Cubs have their big payday guys at first, third, left and on the mound with the Big Z--and standouts they are. Let's keep hoping that Hendry and company are good enough and lucky enough to find a couple more jewels for the Cubs' crown. Given our existing big financial commitments, we may be outbid by someone (Padres) for Fukudome and have to have a Teahan or Seth Smith type bloom say the way Louis Gonzalex did while becoming an exceptional player. That is if we trade some good prospects or from a surplus posiston for one of them.

I would keep our top prospects like Vitters, Marmol, Colvin and Ceda. Until a player like Vitters demonstrates that he isn't, prospectively a top six or eight big leaguer at his position, it seems best to keep him. JimK

Austin,

I'm with you on the Tigers/Marlins deal. Maybin and Miller are stud prospects. We don't have anyone in our system that compares to either of them. Florida made out great in the deal. Between the Renteria deal and this one, Detroit has really gutted their system ... clearly playing to win over the next couple years which makes sense given their current roster.

Like so many others, all I want for Christmas (well, as an early Christmas present) is Fukudome. Let's cross our fingers!

Since very few teams seem particularly interested in A. Jones, is there any chance we could bring in both Fukudome and Jones with the projected budget?

Here are my thoughts on the DET/FLA trade. Florida wins, they essentially got one of the best prospects in the game in Cameron Maybin and a pitcher is soon to be better than Willis. Why does everyone thing Willis is so good???? HE'S NOT!! Sure he eats innings, but he doesnt strike people out that much, and he couldnt get wins while having some of the best run support in the game last season. Sure Cabrera is amazing, but he sucks a defense and DET gave up arguably their two best young players and a bunch more talented prospects. Not to mention the amount they are soon going to have to pay to keep these guys!

Fukudome would be great for this team. He is on OBP machine. He doesnt need to hit 30+ HR's and drive in 120. He needs to be a .310/.360 (.370?)/.450, 20 HR's, 80RBI guy and play great defense, and I think he can do that.

Agustin:

If we don't land Fukudome or some other lefthanded

bat to play RF we might need your hermana. LOL

IT is snowing a lot here. I wish I was on you boat,

drinking a beer, catching a tan and checking out all those hotties from the Island!

Jason, I am somewhat pumped in the idea of Fukdome but I totally hear you on the unproven matter. Also for Cabrera and Willis I would have added Petrick, Pie and even my sister to that list of prospects.

Seriously: IMO that was a suspicious trade…obviously the Marlins know something nobody else knows and they have 2 WS in a decade to prove it. Yet I think they blew it badly this time. The Angels and Dodgers had offered a much better package.

I am so glad that the Cubs are not in the AL.

Detroit, Cleveland, Boston, NY and the Angels are wrecking machines. The NL could once again be for the Cubs taking.

I personally wouldn't have done that Detroit deal for Cabrera/Willis. The Tigers gave away the farm, but certainly received two quality players (thankfully moved to the AL).

In regards to Fukodome, the guy is certainly proven, and when you hear comparisons to guys like Ichiro, that would be a "great catch", without having to give up any roster/farm. I'd take him over Rowand or A. Jones in a heartbeat.

Let's hope it can get to closure.

Tomorrow should be a rockin' day.

Are you kidding me?!?!? Cabrera and Willis for 6 measly prospects!!!!!!

I would have gladly given up Gallagher, Veal, and Marmol, along with Cedeno, Colvin, and Murton if we could get just Cabrera alone!

Oh well...at least we are the frontrunners for some completely unproven Japanese player.

The Stove is Hot sports' fans! Cabrera and Willis to Detroit for high level prospects Maybin OF) and Andrew Miller (P) plus a catcher and 3 A level pitchers. It looks to me like the Dodgers get Bedard for essentially Kemp (OF) and Braxton (Closer). Kemp and Markakis give the Orioles exceptional righty/lefty corner outfielders with power. Like the Twins and Marlins, Baltimore is trying to trade an expensive star or two for half a team of top prospects. So maybe we have a shot at Roberts. Teahen is an above average major leaguer (bat, arm and character), a lefty hitter and a third baseman who switched to OF to give top prospect Gordon a chance to play last year. He would help us. Maybe for us it comes to Fukodome or Teahen for right field. JimK

Aaron, that is the only source in the mainstream media reporting Fukudome will sign with the Cubs. The Padres have offered 4-years and $40 million according to Bruce Levine. I did not hear the Mark Teahen rumor on Levine's reports on ESPN 1000 but I did hear one about Nick Swisher.

Lew...great point!

Well let's not get too excited about this Fukudome signing until pen meets paper. I seem to recall that the Cubs had Rafael Furcal all but locked up before he decided to go to the Dodgers for less money.

If Bedard or Roberts end up being Cubs I don't mind giving MacPhail his farm back. Aaron, you are right that we have been getting little back from the Orioles[except Hart] specially the way they gave away Cherry and that Trashel B.S.

JH has been screwed at times but he has done well other times. At any rate, I don't see how can he be an idiot if he gets Bedard or Roberts when both are top elite players and we don’t have enough bullets to pry any of those 2 in our system? Maybe Vitters could be a start. I would give them Marshall, Marmol and Samardja for Bedard without hesitation. Would you not? Or Marshall, Marmol and Murton for Roberts the same way. If Pie were to be needed to close the deal for Bedard and his next 2 years of “cheap” service I’d do it. What do you think?

Listen, I have an honest interest in knowing your point of view regarding our farm. Which 5 players do you consider the best we have and which one, if any, would you consider untouchable or pricey if traded? In other words, what are your expectations of the future with the players we currently have in our possession?

….Nice to hear from you, and I know it will make you think hard to prove your point!

Yahoo says we still are in the mix for Kuroda…I believe he is pricing himself out teams that are not called Yankees/Redsox! What a lousy and mediocre crop free agent pitchers this off season. My god, when Livan Hernandez @ 56 years old makes the hot stove hour after hour…you know something stinks. If Silva gets 12 million per year, maybe Roger Clemens can close for the Astros for 15million per year and would be cheap.?

I believe the Fukodome reference is on www.mlbtraderumors.com.

It stated "almost certainly" v. "definitely", but encouraging none the less

Aaron, the link is on mlbtraderumors.com:

Cubs Rumors: Fukudome, Prior

UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 7:04pm: Tasty rumor morsel: Geoff Baker of the Seattle Times says Fukudome is "almost certainly" going to sign with the Cubs.

UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 12:20pm: Some new stuff from ESPN Radio 1000's Bruce Levine.

The Cubs have talked to the Royals about Mark Teahen; the Royals like Matt Murton.

We don't trade for Teahen is we get Murton, but I thought it was interesting. Maybe all these names are brought up in rumors by the Cubs to get some sort of answer from Fukudome, if true, its working. I hope this is true and we sign him soon!!!

Aaron:

If Bedard is available and the cost of players wasn't great, I would like to see Hendry make a play for him. As far as serviceable veterans to the Orioles? I wouldn't call Sosa (A Bust) Patterson (decent) Bynum (Enough said) servicable. I know Hendry didn't exactly fleece them either with

Hairston, Fontenot and Hart.

Mark,

where's your source....you have a link?

also...

Adam in Iowa,

those are some of the best comments I've seen on here in awhile----and very true

News out of the Seattle paper states that Fukodome is definitely signing with the Cubs. That's great news if indeed true.

If Hendry trades for Bedard, or anyone else from the Orioles, then he's seriously an IDIOT!!!

We've already given a few serviceable veterans to them and top prospects for virtually nothing. All we really have to show from them his Kevin Hart, and the jury's still out on him. I don't think you can count Fontenot, as he's basically off the map now after his 15 minutes of fame (ie.-hot month)

Bedard and Roberts would cost too much, and MacPhail knows our system too well to trade with him---meaning he will surely get the upper hand

Agustin, sadly, I know. It's a pipe dream for sure. But I did read that the Dodgers appeard to be close with just Matt Kemp and Jonathon Broxton...so its clearly quality over quantity. But I still dont see it happening. I would rather focus on Fukudome and a #2-3 starter if Jim feels the need to get an arm

Austin, Bedard would rock but I am afraid you have not read the asking price. It would cost somewhere around the whole farm system and then some cash for Bedard! Honestly, that one would take like a 6 players to 1 and Vitters, Marmol and Samardja would have to be included. That is my guess.

I love the trade. Scouts say he consistenly throws between 95-97 with a slide in the mid 80's and Bobby Cox said he has a good change and throws strikes. he is basically a young power arm, and you can never have enough of those.

Also, I read that Hendry has lunch with Andy McPhail this afternoon. Speculation was that it was about Erik Bedard...maybe they were just catching up, but I read in two spots the Cubs have inquired about Bedard. I think something like Pie, Gallagher, and Patterson could get it done, but It may not be enough.

On another point...I'm glad we're finally trading for prospects from a minor league system that KNOWS how to develop pitchers..unlike ours.

Also, beyond just the salary clearing...you can never have too many young arms. You can always use them yourself or use them in a trade to acquire someone else. I'm in favor of this move. I didn't like Ohman and I didn't like the idea of Infante.

Now lets go get Fukudome.

You can never have too many power pitchers...

I would rather Ceda come up as a starter than a reliever, personally. In that respect, we'd have our own Justin Verlander if he gets his control in check..

It's not just the salary dollars we're freeing up... it's also the spot on the 40 man roster. With the Rule 5 draft coming up maybe there is someone the Cubs like. My guess is probably more so that if Fukudome declares on Thursday he's coming, Jim & Lou want to be able to swoop in w/ the big offer say 3/36 and get it done by Friday. Having that roster spot open makes that easier without exposing anyone to the Rule 5 draft or outrighting someone the day after the draft.

Just a thought....

Jim, Here's my guess as to why we landed Ascanio as opposed to a comparable player at another position. I don't think the Braves would have dealt a top 10 prospect (as the Braves have some pretty good minor league players among their top 10) for Infante/Ohman so we were likely choosing among mid level prospects. With those options, it may have made sense to just go with the guy that the Cubs scouts saw as having the most upside as opposed to choosing a position of need. Someone in the Cubs organization must have seen something they liked about Ascanio as compared with the other mid level prospect choices.

At the end of the day, we dealt Jones/Ohman for a mid level prospect which is what many people on the site were hoping we'd get for Jones instead of Infante in the first place.

I like the move. It's nothing out of this world, but we clear up some funds and loose the bad Ohman. Not a bad deal. The kid from Atlanta seems to have some promise and we already saw that Ohman had nothing to offer. Not bad at all in my book. Hopefully, JH and Lou have been brushing up on their Japanese we'll be in business.

Go Cubbies!!!

Here's to getting rid of payroll and addition by subtraction--a small (and understandable) step for man--but of modest consequence for mankind/the Cubs. My criticism was not to say I thought that griper Ohman was close to our answer to left-handed relief, but to say why couldn't we get more in the deal. We have right-handed relief in abundance, and we have Ceda and Petrick about ready down on the farm. Ceda may be the second coming of Lee Smith. Ascanio doesn't rank in Baseball America's top 10 prospects' list for the Braves. But two left handed hitting outfielders are on the Top 10 list as are 4 pitchers, including 2 lefthanders. You would think an Ascanio comparable (or better) player would be available at a position where we need help. JimK

I agree, good move to clear some more $$. Does any know how much money has been cleared so far? It seems like it should be enough not only for Fukudome, but maybe for Kuroda too.

I agree with you Adam - addition by subtraction. The guys you listed weren't so much not producing though, they were clubhouse headaches. Barrett punching guys, Jones wanting a trade after being here a month, Ohman refusing to go to AAA after being horrid...

For that reason I think Prior is gone soon too. Too much bellyaching.

Good trade though for Ascanio - good moving even more payroll (time for that preemptive offer to Fukudome) and another adding mid-90's arm. The payroll was key though I'm hoping.

Adam,

I have to agree with you. On the surface this dosen't look like a good trade. However, I also view it as a salary clearing move, and a way to get rid of guys that don't buy into the the Pinella way. Again, meaning, produce or your gone.

I'm sure some will view this as a bad move, but I'm not sure what the Cubs would have gotten out of either Infante or Ohman this season besides a couple of blown leads and an Nefi like infielder. Luckily, we will never get to see Infante in a Cub uniform.

We have removed ourselves of a "BAD OHMAN"!

Jim K,

Addition by subtraction...

Will Ohman was by far the most aggravating reliever this team has EVER had. More than Farnsworth, more than Hawkins, more than Alfonseca, more than ANYBODY.

Every time Ohman took the ball, I would feel a sense of depression come over me. I just knew that every time he pitched he was either going to blow a lead, or turn a 1-run deficit into 3 or 4. And he never let me down. I can only imagine how deflating his performances must have been for the team.

In that case, Ohman was a "real problem on the field". And now the problem is solved.

I have to hand it to Hendry and Piniella: There has been some major house-cleaning going on last season and this offseason. All of our nonproducers are being shown the door. A message is being sent to the team that they either need to produce or they're gone. Barrett, Izzy, Jones, and now Ohman. I have a feeling Prior and Murton are next on the hit-list. Addition by subtraction...

Between Infante, Ohman, Monroe, Jones and Floyd Hendry has now cleared well over $12m in payroll (and we lost no-one of significance).

You want to believe that now something significant is about to happen (big push on Fukodome, which would be fabuluous).

He just got rid of payroll JimK...its how you remain efficient as an organization by keeping costs as low as possible, so he can redirect those funds somewhere else...to a Fukudome -_-;

This deal is no cause for excitement. We have two better righthanded relievers in the minors, and the deal means we get an average minor league prospect,Ascanio, for an average starting major leaguer, Jacque Jones. And the deal addresses none of our near-term needs. Hopefully, JH makes other moves that solve real problems on the field. JimK

I was doing some research on this Jose Ascanio since I heard the news... He has mid 90's stuff and a slider in the mid 80's and good control. He was ranked as the 19th best prospect in the Braves organization coming into this year by John Sickels:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2007/11/16/15556/735

Good move in my opinion for dumping Infante and Ohman and getting some value back in the form of a young middle reliever.

To add to what Adam in Iowa said, Ascanio has strong groundball tendancies, perfect for Wrigley. Looks like a great trade.

Sounds like we just trimmed another $3 million off the payroll for jetisoning Ohman/Infante. A good move. That $3m can certainly be used more effectively elsewhere on the team.

From rotoworld: A 22-year-old reliever, Ascanio had a 2.54 ERA and 71/18 K/BB ratio in 78 innings at Double-A in 2007 before a 13-game stint with the Braves to end the season.

By By Oh-Man!!