Aaron,

Agreed. I was pissed also. Situation probably looks different through beer glass. I did once get hit in the head on the first pitch after knocking in the go ahead run, so I'm a little sensitive. But its done so we will let it be.

noted well Jason, but keep in mind.....if someone does that, you're going to defend yourself if it was way off base. I thought it was, so I responded. Of course I was mad, wouldn't you if someone just started lobbing stuff at you out of the blue after we just got swept.....

it had nothing to do with the game, and really upset me.

anyway, it's done, so we'll just let it be

Ryan and Aaron,

I am not saying one of you is right or wrong.

I don't care who started it.

Please find an internet mssg board that may actually be interested in reading your lame, puffy-chested, cat-fight-esque, ALL-CAPS insults towards each other.

Before you lose your minds, please note that I insulted your insults, and not your respective manhoods.

If you want to talk baseball on this site, feel free, as your contributions on baseball are always welcome...but if you want to pour water on what was otherwise an enjoyable thread, then I am going to find less motivation to read and contribute to this site.

Ryan R:

You are 100% correct about head hunting!

I knew what Aaron meant by up and in.

Between Chest and toes. Pitchers HAVE to own both sides of the plate to be effective.

Gotta admit he has a lot of fire and we were all upset about last night I enjoy your thoughts as well. Solid!

Aaron, actually I was all-state in my day, but I realized that baseball wasn't going to pay the bills so I never pursued it beyond college. And I did get tossed twice for taking out a catcher. But hey, thanks for throwing out petty insults and questioning my manhood, since you don't know me.

I didn't say that you said to hit them. I said that you told 19 year old pitchers to throw by kids heads. You can't tell me that sometime somebody is going to get one trhought the helemt. And I never said you told them to hit them, I merely refer to the fact that your pitchers buzzed them "up and in", meaning near the head you want to hit them in the ribs, thats fine, but your post did say your pitchers buzzed them up and in. And you can forget about all that crap about any professional players, because as I stated, I wasn't talking about pros, I was talking about college kids.

You want to back kids off the plate fine. Pitch them inside, but again, your post said up and in. I was merely hopeing that you were aware of the consequences when you teach a kid to do that. Not only can you seriously hurt a kid, but I have seen a player charge the mound with his bat and take a swipe at a pitcher for throwing near his head, in high school. And I singling you out because it was in your post.

Curt:

Can I come? I love Mexican Beer and Tequila!

Aaron is probably one awesome dude to talk Baseball with.

Arron and Ryan R. I would love to have a beer with you two and talk baseball. Good views from both angles. A little acerbic at some times but good. By the way, Im a Cub fan and a Bud man.

I really learn a lot of interesting things from so many here, but Aaron...the psychology of the body armor is way cool. I never really thought about it from the pitcher's perspective.

Aaron:

No, Bay is not a FA. I read some Pittsburgh News articles about him and that the Pirates might try to move him and this was after Littlefield was fired. I'm not a Murton fan, I bought in to the Peter Gammons article about him a few years back when the Cubs got him in the Nomar deal. I just have seen enough of him to not shed any tears if he is traded. I honestly couldn't tell you where the Cubs ranked in OBP. The fundamental question s/b what was their rank in regards to driving in runners in scoring position.

Baron -- I took a look at the contracts and payrolls for 2007. Soriano got $9 mil this year, Aramis got $8 mil, and Derek got $13 mil. (you've probably already taken a look at all that.)

Just thought this was interesting. As their contracts progress, 3 years from now in 2010 the payroll shows $18 mil to Z; Sori will get $18; Aramis gets $15.75; Derek still at $13 mil; Lilly $10 mil...that's about $75 mil to those 5 guys alone!!! Wonder what our budget is going to be 3 years from now. I know, a lot will change in 3 years, but still...

Jim, Is Bay a FA? I would freaking love that move...

Teixeira....that makes sense...I think what I heard on ESPN was Atlanta looking to sign him to a contract, but that must've meant extension, not as a FA, so I misunderstood.

Thanks for finding out.

No, I don't think I could handle a debate with him, because it'd take all that is in me not to beat him senseless for what he said about me, but hey, it shows what type of person he is anyway with him copying and pasting what I said, inferring that I meant something, when there was nothing in there that said to hit them or anything......

anyway, whatever, he needs to get a life

Aaron and Ryan R:

You guys ROCK! I love your passion! You guys should be on T.V. and have one of those split screen debates. This is what I love about the 1st amendment.

Aaron:

Texiera is in fact under Atlanta's control thru 2008. I wouldn't mind them making a pitch for Jason Bay. What do you think?

forgot to mention.....

how do you back a guy off the plate Ryan R?

here's your way:

"umm...I would go up to the plate, and politely ask him to please back off, so my pitch didn't accidentally hit him....I'd hate for his parents to get mad at me if I accidentally hit him."

Or, did you consider that the pitchers parents might get angry, because he has nowhere to pitch the ball but right down the middle or the outside corner, exactly where he can get his arms extended and take the guy yard. How is that fair?

It's not fair, and is why Bonds, with all his body armor, is allowed to hang over the plate without any fear, and many more guys like AROD, etc.....Augie Ojeda even went up there with an elbow guard, that allowed him to be closer to the plate without any fear.

Steve Stone has been most outspoken about the effects of the arm guards and how it gives an unfair advantage to hitters. How else do you get them off the plate?

You buzz them up and in....doesn't even have to be "up"---just in, and that is precisely what I taught my guys.

I'd be an awful pitching coach if I didn't. The guys were sitting on fastballs, because if you must know, we had a rule, stipulating that their first pitch had to be a fastball, and the whole team knew about it, which puts pressure on the pitcher to execute location. Once guys figured out they were locating on the corners, they crouched the plate, and took away the advantage of the outside corner, putting our pitchers and an extreme disadvantage.

It gave my pitchers CONFIDENCE when they buzzed them, and set the tone that the batters needed to play fair and be more honest.

I'm still at a loss for what you did Ryan R.....I shouldn't have needed to explain the whole situation, but some petty little man like you came along, and forced me to defend my good name.

You are PATHETIC for it, and I will never respond to you again because of it.....I hope you respond like you have in the future though, because it shows just what type of man you are

Sorry to everybody else on here for that explanation...you shouldn't have had to read that....I guess you can thank Ryan R for that, because I didn't see anyone else make a stink about anything.

Ryan R,

you disgust me, actually

I'm sick and tired of your crap, you always do that when respond to anything I say, so it doesn't really surprise me at all coming from you

I knew you'd take the opportunity to come up with some petty shit like that....

Funny, considering you don't know me, don't know the context, and obviously don't want to take the time to consider it.

You probably are a sucker....and weren't any good anyway. My thoughts....You're probably a panzy, and would never make a good coach at anything....you're too soft, in other words.....

Clemens, Ryan, Johnson, etc., etc., etc., I can go on and on, thrived off of backing guys off the plate.

You're a MORON Ryan R, and you proved it right there by copying and pasting exactly what I wrote, and I applaud you for doing that, because it makes you look like even more of an idiot!

NOWHERE, and I mean NOWHERE did I ever say that I taught my guys to hit them. I told them to buzz them up and in off the plate, so eat sh#T RYAN R!!!!!

You amaze me everytime with this.....yes, you are one that singles me out, and you are pathetic for doing so..... Jeff in AZ said it well....you probably didn't read what he said did you? it's unfair, and completely pathetic.

I bet you're one of those guys that said they shouldn't play dodgeball in elementary school or junior high anymore, and that everyone needs to feel included, and everyone needs to win.....that's the type of vibe I get from you.

You are PATHETIC, and yes, I am making an attack on you, because somebody needs to say something to you.

Get lost man, seriously, that's pathetic

I was emotional during the game, as were a lot of people....of course I wanted them to hit them....it was in the heat of the moment, but how dare you say I'm a dirty coach when NOTHING I said stated that I had them hit those players.

Obviously, you never made it really far, and I highly question that you played at that level anyway...but nice try.

I feel the need to respond to a comment that was made last night during the game. It was made by Aaron. And yes I am singleing him out. Yes I am calling him out. I'll cut and paste so there is no confusion........

"Oh, and by the way, if the Cubs grew some balls, to show teams they meant business, they should plant Chris Young, Stephen Drew, or Ojeda on the ground, writhing in pain. That's a managerial call, and it should've been made. We should've planted Young on the ground, because he's too comfortable up there.

Those are the things that put the momentum somewhat back in your favor as you let them know they can't get too cocky....I mean, look at how cocky their dugout was after Young's home run, and Drew's hit....a message needed to be sent Thursday, and it wasn't, and it needs to be sent before we go down with a whimper"

"....I even made that point to our pitchers today, as we had an intrasquad game. We had 2 guys that both went yard twice, and I had to go out to the mound and explain to these guys that it isn't high school ball anymore, and you have to let guys know you mean business in college------apply that to the pros, where you have even more riding on the line, and you'll get my point.

Anyway, the next time those 2 guys came up, they buzzed them up and in, and BOTH of them weakly grounded out."

I assume you are some sort of coach for some level of college. That being said, you freakin disgust me. Your teaching kids. I don't care if they are 18-22 and technically adults. They're in college and have no idea what the real world is like and are still learning the game. And what do you do as an adult? You teach them how to play dirty.

Basically, a pitcher gets taken yard. Instead of teaching him how to learn from his mistakes, and more importanly how to come back and get a guy out by pitching better, you teach them to buzz a fastball by the kids head. And in an intrasquad game? So now your teaching a pitcher to throw at his own teammate.

That type of "win at all costs" coaching makes me want to puke. It's not only wrong, but cowardly. Thats right, cowardly. And before you say, "I said up and in, not to hit hime.", think about this. What are you going to say to a kids parents when one of your pitchers gets taken yard , and the next time that batter comes up and gets a fastball in the ear that puts him in the hospital or worse? "Oh, well its not high school and I was just trying to show him I mean business." Great.

I'm not saying this as a Cubs fan. I'm not talking about professional ball. I'm saying it as a person and more importantly a parent. If I find out my kid got hit because the coach told the pitcher to "send a message", first I'm taking the coach in the parking lot to settle things, and then I'm going to have you fired and thrown in jail.

Aaron, you want to react on emotion without thinking, do it on your own time. Don't involve college kids. And, yeah, I played some college ball, so don't think I don't know how the game is.

Dear all:

I must say that though I played the metrics and believed the Cubs will get into the playoff, I feared the D-Backs and the Padres--those pitching-marvel teams can get us. And my nightmare comes and haunt me.

But this team has been keeping me REALLY INTERESTED since offseason 2006. New signing, new management, new talents rolled up, and it's a new kind of Cubbie to me.

I love it. I hope MacDougnal and Piniella can keep their rennovatation energy of what we already have and make it better.

Cubbie once, and Cubbie forever.

And with all due respect, youre calling for A-Rod while dissing on Aramis' playoff numbers. Have you not watched one ESPN TV show. A-Rod in the playoffs aint pretty either.

Im all for A-Rod too. I was giddy as Hell when that A-Rod to Cubs rumor surfaced. All Im saying is, dont diss on Aramis' playoff numbers and call for a A-Rod signing at the same time.

"Aramis ($75 million) Ramirez going 0 for 12 with five strikeouts and Alfonso ($136 million) Soriano going 2 for 14 for an offense that hit .194 and went 2 for 23 with runners in scoring position. "

Will we all be grandfathers before this team wins like 2 playoff series??

Lets not sugarcoat it..

26 HR, 101 RBI is the offensive highlight of the season... please Cubs fans --- don't get conned year after year after year after year.

those numbers are mediocre... those are not star numbers...

Provide me 1 star offensive stat from this team this year.... $300 million spent.... this aint the Marlins.... we need Star numbers...

This batting lineup stinks..... no cuddly comments can hide that fact... If the Red Sox were in the NL Central, they would win 120 games..

I am as obsessed with the Cubs as anyone.... but let me assure you that if only "tweaking" is done this off-season --- the results will not change much... The Cards and Astros will make a big comeback next year....

We need 1 more star... a superstar would be better... this team has no superstars... Prior and Wood were superstars... but no more....

A-Rod would change this team..... Jim Hendry needs to get on the horn

Whats wrong with Hill? Hes young, not a headcase. Hes our K leader. And has the second best ERA on the staff. Gives us too many HRs but I think he'll improve.

Dont diss on him because of tonight's start. It was his first big pressured test.

Off to Arby's. 5 for 5$!

=)

An Aging Moises Alou? look at his stats this year?

Moises Alou is better than any hitter, leave Soriano, in this lineup....

I'll take him in left field, anyday...

ive been reading this site for a year now. its great.

i cant sleep tonight because of this, it really hurts.

if you think that Z is a headcase, look at mr hill. i would do anything to package him into a deal for a shortstop such as tejada/renteria. but what i would do for a-rod.... i also tihnk that we need someone like rowand/hunter/fukodome. we just need to keep adding on.

I can't sleep, too upset.

Nail on the head Jeff, nail on the head

I just wanted to comment on the posts made during the game tonight. I don't think it was fair for everyone to jump on Jim from Tinley, Aaron, or Boseph. They were just being passionate, and sometimes we all say silly things when we are pissed off. It actually bugged me that some of the newcomers to this site chimed in and attacke these guys for what I consider is harmless passion.

Jim from Tinley - Soriano's hop looks gay. I'm sick of the politically correct world we all have to live in where people get offended by a comment like that. It looked gay. Ever heard of the looks like a duck, walks like a duck.... getting my point. Go blog on CNN if you had a problem with Jim's comments.

Boseph- I thought your comment about rioting and getting after the players cars was funny. Anyone who took that serious really should lighten up.

Aaron- Kudos bro. Even though I disagree with you from time to time, your passion is incredible, just don't do anything crazy tonight!

Neil- Thanks man, this is my second year following this site, and I think it is a great place. I'd really like to meet you next year up at Ho Ho Kam. Keep in touch.

Jason B. - Well said brother-man! Instead of ripping the hell out of the team or blowing it up, we need to be happy that we went from worse to first.

Lou Pinella- Thanks for a great year. Lets not rip him for pulling Zambrano. If Z had thrown 100+ pitches in game one and then got rocked in game 4, we all would have bithced about that too. Lets also not forget that we didn't score any more runs after Z was pulled anyway. The result could have been the same even if Z stayed in.

All other CCO readers - There truely is a lot of reason to be optimistic. This team is very different from the 2003 team. We don't have a roided up sammy sosa, an aging moises alou, we are not depending on wood or prior to start, we have a great manager whou obviously knows how to win, and the possiblility of a new owner is exciting. Thanks for helping to make this an awesome place to hang with other cubs faithful.

Jeff in AZ

It's still gonna happen. Just not this year. I can't agree with Jason's post more. This was a "good" team, not a "great" one. The D-backs outplayed us in every facet of the game, and for that we must commend them. I agree with Jason, that this is a beginning, not an end. This team does not need a personel overhaul, maybe a tweek to the outfield if Floyd retires. (although I'd still like to see Murton get a chance out of spring training). I hope that the team looks at how the D-backs approached the post season, and truely understands what it takes to win a that level. I'm going to reference the Florida series as well; when this team looked lifeless in the most important series of the year down in Florida, I was concerned, but I didn't want to believe that this team lacked greatness. This team will not take 2 months of the season next year to play like a team, and that should make them just plain scary.

As for changes next year:

-Add a starting pitcher via trade if Prior or Wood are not canidates.

-Find a new home for rich hill. Z is not a headcase, rich hill is.

-give pie and murton a chance to play everyday.

-Thats it. Not much. talk to you all over the winter, and can't wait for spring.

It's gonna happen

Jeff in AZ ( damn D-backs )

So-long everyone. I've enjoyed this site so much since I came across it, and have enjoyed reading all of your opinions and perspectives, and sharing some of mine with you. Take care of yourselves, and I hope life treats you well in the meantime.

Thanks again, Neil, for the great site; and thank-you to all the other talented writers as well.

God Bless,

Rose

Well said, Jason B.

CCO Readers,

It was a great year!

From 96 losses, to a division title in one year!

The future is bright...a great mix of veterans in their prime, and young talent that should improve.

Add to the rotation the possibilities of Wood and Prior next year, and that is a positive.

Carlos Marmol will be a year older and wiser...that is a positive.

Alfonso Soriano will be used to day games and Wrigley Field...look at Alou, Lee, and many other free agents...they always fare better after their 1st season in Wrigley. Not to mention, Soriano will probably steal 40 bases next year, if his legs are finally healthy.

Maybe we keep Jacque Jones...maybe we don't.

Either way, we need to revamp the OF a bit.

Soriano is a keeper.

Can Pie and/or Patterson make the jump? I hope so.

Other than that...there is really nothing to do, and no one to sign...this is a solid team...a playoff team, and they are positioned to only get better!

Maybe I am an exception to the rule, but I am not really sweating the World Series that much.

I was happy the Bears got to the World Series.

I was happy the Bulls became a playoff team again the past few years.

If you work hard, and you win more than you lose, then it is enjoyable entertainment to me.

Besides...if you make your whole life's ambition to see the Cubs win the World Series, then what do you do the day after they finally win the World Series?

What will be your motivation for getting up in the morning? What will be your passion?

It is like getting married and going on your honeymoon. Months and months of planning...a huge event...the most important day of your lives...a lavish vacation...and then???

Life.

That is what happens when you aren't paying attention, because you have been so consumed with one goal, or one motive...life passes you by.

I know my Cubs.

I love my Cubs.

I have been a Cubs fan as long as I can remember...

But this team wasn't ready...and if you thought they were after that Florida series, or after Game 1 against the DBacks, then you were lying to yourself.

You know better.

You know greatness when you see it.

You can feel destiny and fate in the air when somethng is meant to be.

This Cubs team was the end of an era (Tribune) and the beginning of an era (2008 and beyond).

This was a team stuck in a moment.

This team wasn't ready.

But the future is bright, and we now have the offseason to look forward to...the new ownership to look forward to...and the return of eternal optimism in the Spring.

If you are feeling down...go watch Field of Dreams, and fast forward to the end, and listen to James Earl Jones tell you about baseball.

Through all the ups and downs, baseball is always there...it is the journey, and not the destination. World Series in 2008? Maybe. If not, just give me a winning club, a fun team to watch, and a reason for hope.