From the Wire....Marquis Agrees to Deal with Cubs

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Jason Marquis Agrees to Terms with the Cubs on a Reported 3-year Deal

Updated - 10:43am C.T./10:52am C.T. - with More Info on Marquis' Contract
Updated 11:32am C.T. - with a Look at Marquis' Numbers
Updated - 10:20pm C.T. with Info on Marquis' Contract, Carlos Zambrano and Cliff Floyd

According to several reports including the Chicago Tribune, Cubs.com and ESPN.com, the Cubs have agreed to a 3-year deal with free agent pitcher Jason Marquis. The amount of the contract has varied from source to source but the deal is believed to be worth between $20 and $28 million.

Marquis was 14-16 with a 6.02 ERA in 2006 but was 15-7 with a 3.71 ERA in 2004. He has a career record of 56-52 with a 4.55 ERA.

Update - Information is still coming in and ESPN 1000 in Chicago just reported during an update that the deal is believed to be worth $20 - $24 million. Bruce Levine is reporting the deal to be worth between $6.5 - $7 million a year with incentives.

Update 10:52am C.T. - According to a report by Bruce Miles, the deal is expected to be announced next week after Marquis passes a physical. Miles stated the deal reported by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch is incorrect and he is expected to be worth between $20 and $21 million. This would match with Levine's report about incentives.

Update 11:32am C.T. - Jason Marquis is 28 years old and will not turn 29 until August. His career year came in 2004 with the Cardinals when he was 15-7 with a 3.71 ERA. He has averaged just over 200 innings over the last 3 years with and average of 32 starts. But despite the success he had with the Cardinals he did allow 26 home runs and over the past 3 seasons he has allowed 90 home runs....an average of 30 a year. After reviewing his stats, here is an interesting one, worth passing along:

In 2006 he started 12-day games and was 7-5 with a 4.33 ERA, a .246 opponents batting average and a 1.27 WHIP.

His night starts were at the other end of the spectrum....21 games started, 7-11 with a 6.95 ERA, 1.66 WHIP and a .312 opponents batting average. In 4 career starts at Wrigley he is 1-3 with a 5.40 ERA in 20 innings and has given up 6 long balls.

Career numbers vs. the Central:

Milwaukee - 4-6 in 11 starts in 13 games, 4.43 ERA
Cincinnati - 4-3, 10 starts, 4.76 ERA
Houston - 7-4, 14 starts in 19 games, 4.89 ERA
Pittsburgh - 3-4, 10 starts in 14 games, 3.76 ERA
St. Louis - 1-0, 1 start in 3 games with a 2.25 ERA
Chicago - 3-5, 10 starts in 11 games with a 4.48 ERA

Will update when more information becomes available....

Update 10:20pm C.T. - According to a report by Paul Sullivan in the Chicago Tribune on Saturday night the deal Marquis agreed to was a 3-year deal worth $21 million dollars. Larry Rothschild worked out with Marquis and he and the Cubs are convinced Marquis can return to the form from 2004.

According to Sullivan the Cubs' payroll for 2007 currently stands around $100 million with other moves on the horizon, including that of Cliff Floyd which Sullivan states is "a strong possibility and another move or two on tap." This year's staff payroll is around $31.8 million counting Prior; last season the starting staff cost $34.8 million.

Carlos Zambrano will be looking for around $14 million in arbitration next season according to Sullivan and will be willing to settle for around $13 million and would pay him one of the highest salaries of an arbitration eligible pitcher since Roger Clemens and Greg Maddux.

  • Geen

    Overall I think JH did about as good as he could so far I think he still has work to do

    I might be crazy or naive but this is how I see it

    If you have to overpay for Lilly or Meche I am glad they got the lefty for four years instead of the rightly for more money for five years if he wants to play in KC he can have it. I think Derosa will be given every chance to be our second baseman but remember that Lou loves the super utility man and if Derosa doesn’t play like last year Ryan T.(he is a gamer and I probably like him to much) will get a chance and Derosa can play everywhere else. I still think the Cubs might have a room/trade for another pitcher/CF left in the bag, if so we would have to give up some combo of JJ/Marshall/Marmol/Ronnie ect I would only be willing to do so for a Jennings or Brad Penny. If and I say If Willis or Vernon Wells is available I would trade what ever we have for one of those guys no one would be untouchable outside of Z/Lee/Ram/Soriono. You can love your young prospects but they are just that, prospects if you can get proven talent like Willis/Wells and sign theme for a few years you should do it as you can only hope Pie/Patterson/Marshall ect will ever be the players that these guys are. If the Cubs really want to win now JH should look to bring one more big impact player to the cubs. Some may subscribe to the idea that you dont pay Derosa the type of money he is going to get to be a utilty player or pay Marquis 7 mill to not use him as a starter. I think JH has one year to be a winner if they lose this year he is done I don’t think he or Lou will be overly patient will player that don't perform.

  • Chad

    Jason,

    I think you're assesment of the Zambrano situation is acurate. I wonder if Hendry approached Z before November and was told to come back in the spring, or if JH just put it on the back burner? The latter would have been an expensive mistake. Carpenter's contract is a bargain now.

  • Ryan R

    I added and "R" to my name since it looks like there is another Ryan in Millwaukee. I, unfortunately am stuck in Cincinnati. Agreed on the negativity part. I will do my best. Look, most Cubs fans are passionate about the team. On the same level as Red Sox nation. Although I hope that we don't ever throw that word on the end of our fanbase. I travel alot. I fly to other cities all over the country 3-4 times a week. I also proudly display some sort of Cubs apparel most of the time when I'm not working. You would not believe some of the negative comments I get like "I can't stand the Cubs." What? How? I can understand if you prefer your hometown team or you live in St. Louis. But how can a guy in LA or Phoenix, or Seattle say that? Who have we beat in the last 98 years? How I would love to not have to ask that quetion because we DID beat somebody. Of course part of the problem may be that, like here in Cincinnati, we are usually the only time other than opening day that the stadium is full. And most of it is blue. My point is when I hear just blatent hatred of moves before the season is even started from other Cubs fans I just shake my head. Especially when some of the logic behind it seems to be flawed in MY OPINION.

    I don't think anybody here is a downright, "can do no wrong" lover of Jim Hendry. But look at what the guy has given us to argue about. Instead of us complaining about the fact that the Cubs had once again done next to nothing, or picked up an aging superstar on the downturn of his career, ( see Fred MCGriff),were complaining that we didn't spend enough money to get guys like Schmidt. When in past years would Schimdt even enter into the equation? So yeah, call me crazy' but I do have hope. I hope the Cubs win the WS. I hope everybody stays relatively healthy during the season. I hope that some of my aging relatives live to see the Cubs win the WS. Baseball is a fantasy world. And all fantasies are based on hope.

  • Jason B. from AZ

    Hey Anthony,

    I know the word is Schmidt and Zito preferred certain geographic areas, but, let's face it, money talks! That is why Gil Meche is in KC next year. That is why Andy Petite is with the Yankees next year, etc... Speaking of Petite, I really love how the modern athlete has such a skewed view on reality, and such an absurd sense of entitlement. Petite was quoted, on espn.com, I think, more or less saying how Houston didn't want him enough, and didn't chase after him as hard as the Yankees, and how he was surprised Houston would "only" offer him $12/mill a year, and not counter the Yankees offer more aggressively. First of all, the cost of living in NY is much higher, so I am not positive that $16 mill in NY is that much different than $13-14 mill in Texas, but I could be mistaken. Either way, here is a "hometown" guy that is shunning the Astros for...you guessed it...money!

    It was reported that Hendry offered $44 million over 3 years for Schmidt, or about $15 million a year. If Schmidt had accepted, Zambrano could have still been paid a reasonable (for today's market) $16 million a year and been the top paid starter on the Cubs staff. Derrick Lee seems like a nice guy, and a very grounded person, but don't think for a minute he didn't look at the Ramirez and Soriano signings and at least mutter to himself "what the...!" In reality, the athletes don't need that extra $1.5 million a year, as much as they view not getting it as a lack of respect. Oddly enough, extremely competitive people can have, at their core, a high level of insecurity. They need to keep proving they are better than others through their performances, and their compensation. This is their way of judging themselves against their peers. Very rarely do you see a self-assured, confident, content athlete, that decides to stay in his current town because he doesn't need the extra $1 mill to goto KC, or to uproot his kids from their schools and friends. I have heard that Keith Van Horne of the NBA was kind of a selfish guy, but then I later learned he is out of the NBA this year...not because he is no longer wanted, or needed, but because he felt like his family had to come first, and he didn't want to move anyone right now. At a minimum, he left $5 million on the table, which is the NBA mid-level exception, which many teams would have gladly given him.

    As for Zito...he hasn't signed anywhere yet, and the Cubs just grabbed Marquis. So my guess is the Cubs were never all that interested in making a big push for Zito. Zambrano's upcoming payday may have had nothing to do with either Schmidt or Zito not being signed by Hendry, but it is at least a possibility.

    Jeff,

    Neifi, Rusch, Jerome Williams and hopefully Novoa...they all equal addition by subtraction, in my eyes. That, combined with a manager and batting coach that stress looking for good pitches to hit and who have had teams with high OBP, means that the 2007 Cubs were already drastically improved before the Marquis signing anyway.

    Marquis is adequate, and will help with the goal of getting to the playoffs. Besides...it's not like you need all your starters to pitch in the playoffs to win the World Series...just ask Marquis about that!

  • daverj

    To add to what Gary said ... we may not even know how well JH did this offseason until well past April and even beyong 2007 (see Gary's Beltran example). Maybe Soriano will go from 40-40 in '06 to 20-20 in '07 (it's entirely possible given his stats away from Arlington in '05), but then go back to 40-40 in '08. Maybe Marquis and Lily will do nothing in '07 but be great in '08. But predicting and debating is part of the fun so let's all keep in up ... just no name calling in the process.

  • Jeff in AZ

    In all seriousness, perhaps those of us that are happy with the signings of Derosa, Lilly, and Marquis are just happy that it's not Neifi, Jerome Williams, or Glendon Rusch. I'm sorry if I offended anyone on the board today. I come to this sight because all of you guys, including myself, are so passionate about Cub's baseball. If we disagree, that is part of it, and I'm sure I will disagree again, I have not and will not resort to name calling, but please note that sarcasm is just part of the way I debate. We all have the common goal here of cheering on the Cubs and hoping we win a World Series, that I think we can all agree on. Glad to see the big dogs Neil and Jason weighed in tonight, that's when you know a thread has gotten huge (or out of control). Have a good night guys.

  • Anthony

    Jason,

    Not sure if you've read this, but it's been reported pretty much all over that neither Schmidt nor Zito wanted to play here for their own reasons (geographical mostly), so it was not necessarily a case of Hendry not spending enough.

    Gary, AMEN !! Enough with the constant negativity. I think we all get enough of that from our wives. LOL !!

    Give this team a chance and I think some of you will be pleasantly surprised.

    Good Night All !!!

    Go Salukis

  • Chad, with the way he can hit....you never know. LOL!!

  • Chad

    I still think Marquis will be our CF.....

  • Jim

    Stay on the box Gary. Well said.

  • Gary...well said and you can borrow my soap box anytime.

  • Gary from WA

    Everyone please! Neutral corners!!! :-)

    When Randy Wolf gets $8 mil per, then Marquis at $6.5 with incentives is more or less right priced in this market. Maddux recommended the guy talk to Rothchild and they both think he's fixed a couple of mechanical flaws... so why not wait and see? If he bombs then we can go with the youngsters - if he puts up the numbers from a couple years ago then we're golden.

    As for the other options out there, everyone has their favorites. Mulder would have been a nice option, Bautista to perhaps a lesser extent, but beyond that there wasn't anything that was an upgrade over last year (although there's a lot of argument that none of them are upgrades)

    As for the talk going on over the board the last couple of days....

    (climbing up on my soap box)

    PLEASE stop with the negativity, bashing, and name calling. I chose this board over the others out there because everyone has their opinion but things are expressed in a manner that at least is courteous - but things have gotten a bit out of hand.

    Remember, two years ago, the Mets spent a huge amount of money on a hugely talented young guy coming off a career year and a dominant playoff performance, but really without much of a track record - and when he struggled a bit and didn't put up the stats they were expecting, they were ready to run the GM out of town (I know more than a couple people in NYC - believe me - they were crucifying the guy). If you hadn't guessed, the player was Carlos Beltran.... but because he turned it around last year, in the past few days I've been seeing his name thrown around as an example of the failures of the Cubs to sign players in previous off seasons.

    The point is - until these guys take the field in April, ALL of this is just conjecture and opinion. Players perform differently in different markets, with different coaches, with different pressures, with different roles, with different players around them in the lineup, with different players around them in the clubhouse, etc etc etc.

    Everyone is entitled to have their own opinions, but if you happen to disagree with someone it doesn't make them an idiot. Time may prove that it's you that didn't know what you were talking about

    (getting down from the soap box)

    Sorry about that - just need to get that off my chest :-)

  • Trevor

    Jim I think your loyalty was questioned because you said you have been a Cubs fan too long to hope. Hope is what baseball is all about, you hope that your top players perform like they should and you hope that your flyers catch on and help as well. You hope that the coaching staff is making the right moves and that your GM is aggressive. If you don't have hope anymore as a Cubs fan, or any fan for that matter, what's the point of watching?

  • Jim

    Do not question my loyalty becasue you don't like what I said. I don't like this signing. I don't see the point of adding a guy like this. And don't tell me that larry rothchild is going to fix Marquis problems. I love what JH has done so far. I just really don't like this move.

  • Ryan

    Sorry if someone already mentioned this cause i didnt read all of the posts!

    To be honest, as a huge cub fan i am just happy to be doing something. I live in Brewer country and you should hear their fans talk now. They are all wondering why THEIR team isnt signing anyone and MY team keeps signing people. I really am just happy we are doing something. Some teams when they have a bad year they sign a couple of free agents and just accept that it will take a few years to get better. NOT US! I have to give Hendry props for trying to make us better and make us better NOW. Also, deals will be looked at in many ways but lets just let the deals work themself out. Who knows, maybe it will finally click for Marquis - i feel the talent is there.

    I just want to say one more time. Lets just be happy our GM is atleast trying to make us better and atleast doing something. Something is better than nothing! Right?!?!

  • DMac

    alright, i think this will be the last response for the night. I am paying too much attention to this site as opposed to studying for some pretty important exams. I respectfully disagree whole heartedly with the statement "if a guy has proven himself through the AA/AAA level, he serves a shot. And he's not going to bomb at the major league level" The jump from triple A to majors is HUGE. I dont even know how to describe it. One example right off the bat, Dubois who hit 30 HR in Triple A, he has produced a lot at the next level. the list could go on and on. I could look through stats and find thousands and thousands of players that hit .300 in triple A and couldn't do a thing in the majors. success or lackthereof in lower levels does not always translate to success in the majors. this is a big knack on the statistical theories of beane and others.

    sometimes scouts and managers look at the "tools" of players and determine whether or not they are able to play at the ultimate level disregarding their stats. if you discount Cedeno after one year of ML expereince, how do you not discount others who have recievd experience of one year. Sometimes it takes more than a year to establish any kind of production int he big league. It took hill about 2 years before he showed any sort of success. I have never seen patterson play, but I am not going to look at his numbers and say....yeah he could match DeRosa's, cause you CANNOT compare double A and Triple A stats to major league stats, that is too big of an inference. I do think Theriot deserves a shot. In fact, I think he will get a shot. just cause DeRosa was signed at 3 mil, does not guarentee him the starting spot. DeRosa was a good pick up because he can play essentially any position besides Catcher, and who knows, maybe he can even do that. I hope Eric Patterson turns out to be a stud, and I think he may have it in him, but I also dont think he should be rushed. In terms of Pie, I think he is the starting centerfielder by the end of the season, just not at the beginning, I hope that is Kenny's job in keeping the seat warm until Pie gets his long awaited shot.

    one more thing....as for an "eternity" of bad years for Izzy. he had two subpar years at ages 22 and 23 before haveing a breakout year at 24, and then being hurt much of last year at 25. if anything i would say he deerves a shot after prving he can play at the big league level over patterson, who has some time to mature and has yet to prove he can consistently play at the triple A level.

    and one more thing...errors dont capture the intangibles. you know, i would be willing to bet without looking TWalker had a high fielding percentage, but that doesn't take into the consideration he had the range of 55 year old man with two knee replacements (ok, that is a little exageration). but yeah, so lugo had 4 more errors, but how many balls does Izzy get to, that Lugo cant?

  • Chad

    Aaron,

    Every Cub fan understands your frustration. But you can't have young guys with potential sitting the bench in the majors. They need to play every day to get better. Now if they can start in the majors, fine. But Patterson's .276 10-60 in the MINORS doesn't exactly scream for starting in MLB.

    Whereas, in DeRosa's only year with 500+ AB's, he hit .296 13-74 in the MAJORS. Give Patterson 2-3 more years to mature.

    I like Theriot too, but the Cubs see him as a utility guy on the major league level at best. Maybe they're wrong, maybe they're not. We'll see.

    I got my fill of watching young guys get their chance last year. Let them earn their chance by DOMINATING in the minors first. Hill is really the only recent guy who dominated in the minors, and now we're seeing it in the big leagues.

  • Austin

    Aaron-

    I just want to respond to some great points you made: "The thing is, we haven't had "Plan B" options. We've had "Plan F"---as in the grade I would give all the options"

    I think it is clear we did have a plan B, and it happened to be the next best guy out there, Lilly, (I wish I could say Meche too, but we had to move on to plan C after him). So it's not like we went from the top to the bottom, we just went down another step...to a guy who won 15 games in the AL East, I'll take that, money aside...And I wish trades were just that easy...

    "I'm not saying that Patterson is the answer, and will be the second coming of RYNO....but hasn't he earned the right to be considered for it????? I'm not saying that Marshall/Marmol/Mateo/O'Malley/Guzman are the second coming of Pedro or Johnson, or Clemens....but don't you think their collective average ERA of 5.30 is worth taking a chance on..."

    Unlike many peopel who responded, I DO think Patterson has earned it. However, we still have Theriot, and I don't think it would be in the best interest of the Cubs (remember how I said we are in a win NOW mode) to start the season with Patterson at 2B.

    I like what you said about the Marlins, but, they weren't a playoff team...Surely Hanley Ramirez and Dan Uggla would be great, but those are two amazing prospects, not quite like Patterson...yet, hopefully. I can't imagine him making a huge impact right now, he's still young, even though he has impressed me.

    The stats about our No. 5 starters (rookies) was good, they were better than Marquis, and I've been wanting them in the rotation over Marquis forever, I am not in favor of him, so I agree with you there. I don't understand why JH would sign him when we have a bunch of good arms that have shown potential, especially with this guy named, uh...Mark Prior, who will take all the time he needs to get healthy, can pitch for us. That really leaves one spot for Marshall/Marmol/Miller...thats not a bad situation to be in...

  • Aaron

    DMac....Of course.....b/c Cedeno NEVER earned it....he had one decent years....All the other guys have had consistent numbers----again....CONSISTENT numbers. Izzy had one decent year.....and an eternity of sub-par offensive years. Great, he's good defensively, but most people in baseball said Lugo had great range too, and only about 4 errors more than Izzy. I'm saying put an end to signing these stopgap veterans like Coomer, Stairs, Burnitz, Lenny Harris, Mabry, etc., and start giving the young guys a chance to win the job....Wouldn't you rather give them a shot now in a less demanding role--like the bench, or bullpen, than trade them away and watch them flourish. I think you DMac were a proponent of trading for Willis....I know for sure I saw many people on here clamouring for the Cubs to trade for him. What if we could've solved that problem by just giving him a chance in spring training to earn a spot. Veal, Gallagher, Marshall, Patterson, etc.---they all have earned the right to be considered, but the Cubs denied them by signing DeRosa, Lilly, Marquis, and Ward. Most young guys on other teams that become superstars end up platooning or coming out of the bullpen their first year in the league. Why we cannot grasp this concept---I can't figure it out for the life of me.

    Okay, essentially what you're saying is you'd rather overpay for mediocrity, than underpay for mediocrity, with a chance for greatness. If the guy has made it all the way up through the system to AA-AAA, then he's proved he's worth a chance. Chances are, he's not gonna bomb completely at the major league level if we give him a shot---therefore, it makes sense to throw in an "underpaid" youngster for mediocrity with a chance for greatness, than overpay for mediocrity----and get mediocrity---because you know historically what you're getting, and law of averages tells you that indeed, you will receive about 4.40-5.80 or so ERA's for Lilly and Marquis, and approximately 170 and 195 innings respectively. For DeRosa, you can count on about .265 avg 10 hr, and 55-60 rbi's....Now I'll be a monkey's uncle if we can't find that in our system for $330,000 a year. Therefore, you just saved $23 million that you could've used 9 for Lugo, and 15 for Schmidt or Drew....oh, and not to mention, Carlos Lee, who actually wanted to play in Chicago too. But I guess .300 avg 40 hr, 100 rbi must grow on trees according to our management---no, wait, they grow in the form of Cliff Floyd, Daryle Ward, and DeRosa....see, if you get a bat like that---Lee, Drew, or Lugo, you can afford to let Cedeno, Theriot, Patterson, Pie be on the bench----but 2 anemic offensive shortstops, you can't, so see ya later Cedeno...Pie? Nope, your long awaited entrance is being pushed back because we want to give Ward a shot....Patterson? Nope, sorry we signed a guy with lifetime mediocre stats because we feel that your stats at AAA and the AFL the last two years are bunk....and those 50 stolen bases? Yeah, they must've made them up too. Oh don't forget the pitchers.....I'm sorry Gallagher---your career record of 25-10 2.50 ERA, avg 160 K's will not cut it for our team....Unbelievable!!!!! Anyway, I'm tired of it...

    Cliff---thank for not drinking the Kool-Aid, and thinking logically about the moves. Doesn't it all make sense to you? Larry too...thanks for readingb

  • Jason B. from AZ

    Hi Adam,

    Welcome to the CCO! As for Mulder, in any year but this year, I think Mulder would have been the absolutely typical Hendry signing. Just like Dempster, Scott Williamson, Wade Miller etc... Hendry loves a bargain, and often signs guys he thinks will get better (Barrett, Marquis) or guys that are coming off injury and have lower costs as a result. I would still like to take a flyer on Mulder, but I think, unlike Demspter, Mulder will cost a LOT of money, just due to his impressive career numbers, which Demspter and Miller did not come close to matching.

    Aaron,

    Good point on the Pintos. If money was really no object, you would have Schmidt and Zito on the team, and not Lily and Marquis. Simple as that. However, we do need to cut the Tribsters some slack, as they did shell out for the top position player (Soriano) and have spent a lot on Lee and Ramirez in the last year as well. Any owner, even the Yankees, has a limit. I theorized earlier that part of the reason for focusing on the 2nd Tier pitchers (Lily, Meche, Marquis, etc...) may be that Hendry has an eye on Zambrano's extension as well. If Hendry gave Schmidt $19 million a year, how much would a younger, better, Zambrano ask for? This way, Zambrano can still be paid Roy Oswalt money, and be easily the top-paid starter on the Cubs staff. I do also believe they are hoping for a Carpenter-like comeback out of Prior (and sort of from Wade Miller as well) even if they won't admit it. If Prior returns to form, he will expect to be paid a big contract in the next year or two as well.

    I am fine with Marquis. Honestly, as a fifth starter, we have had crap for years and years, with the lone exception being 2004 (Maddux, Clement, Wood, Prior, Zambrano)..that was the most talented staff in the majors.

    Taking 2004 out of the equation, fifth starters have ranged from Jerome Williams, Glendon Rusch, Wade Miller (only two weeks behind Kerry Wood, folks!), Shawn Estes, Jason Bere...ech.

    So Marquis, to me, is a solid #5. Did we pay too much? Yes...but only for his level of talent. You must factor in the money we saved by holding onto farm talent, whether they be low-cost options that contribute to our roster in the future, or remain valuable trade chips down the road.

    I believe they are counting on Wade Miller for the 4th spot in the rotation...him or Prior. So here is the rotation order, as I see it, from best to worst:

    Zambrano, Lily, Hill, Miller/Prior/Marquis

    You have to bank on Zambrano being above .500, and you hope that Hill will be slightly above .500. If healthy, you would like to believe Miller/Prior are at least a few above .500, and then Lily and Marquis just eat innings, saving the bullpen, and are right about .500.

    The starters themselves should be about 10 games above .500 (figure 6 games over by Zambrano alone and that seems reasonable).

    Here are my predicted win/loss records:

    Zambrano 17-10

    Lily 12-12

    Hill 12-10

    Prior/Miller 13-9

    Marquis 11-11

    That is 65 wins.

    Based on historical stats, all of these numbers are doable, except for Hill, which is just a pure projection of hope.

    Our bullpen should be lights out. I think Wuertz will have a good year, and with Wood on board, I think Novoa is gone, which further strengthens the pen. Eyre and Howry are solid, and Dempster will be ok, but I predict will still relinquish the closer's role to Wood. When you have a pitcher that dominant, he won't stay in middle relief for long. Cotts is an upgrade over Rusch as well, and you still have Ohman, I assume. That is seven solid bullpen arms, and, I believe, the best bullpen in baseball. This will make guys like Marquis look good, as if he gives up 4 runs in 6 innings (a 6.00 ERA) and the bullpen locks it down, I am guessing the Cubs will have a strong enough offense to win games like that, more often than not.

    I think the only real thing left is getting Lofton for CF. I don't think we need Floyd, unless he is truly a 4th outfielder. Trade JJ for scraps...doesn't matter really what you get for him. Don't let a Floyd acquisition cut into Murton minutes...the idea of platooning Murton is silly, as he would get limited at-bats if only facing lefthanders, and I don't recall seeing any reason, with his batting average last year, that he can't hit right or lefthanded pitching.

    CF still needs addressing...you can't place Soriano in CF, and keep the average defense of Murton, with the below average defense of JJ.

    Lofton, I believe, is key!

  • Chad

    JH did a poor job last year, but it is obvious that he didn't have the ability to spend anything like he has been given this year. So rip him for not getting a Marquis type guy last year for insurance, but Beltran and Furcal was not his fault. He couldn't spend like he can now. Why did the Trib change???? Don't know, but they did.

    We all would have preferred Schmidt, but he wasn't coming east of the San Andreas Fault...it was his right, but totally unfair to blame Hendry for it.

    I don't like the Marquis signing either, but I'm glad to have another experienced starter to go to so we don't end up in the same situation as last year. Injures can happen again ya know. Suppan would have been a better choice, but a lot more expensive and probably for more years. Now the young guys can get experience where they should.

  • Jeff in AZ

    Dayne Perry has some competition on this website. lol

  • Jeff in AZ

    Aaron-

    When did Floyd become such a piece of crap to you, that you want a minor league second baseman to platoon with Murton instead. Floyd had an injury last year, and the cubs are looking at his medical records, and probably will take the 'calculted' risk. I makes me laugh that when the Cubs go out and start signing experience free agents to win now, than the people start crying about giving the kids a chance. Excuse me, the kids got a chance last year, tot the tune of 66 wins. This team needs experienced role players and veteran pitchers to turn this thing around, not eric patterson.

  • Jeff in Az

    Aaron- have you ever made a post that is less than 12 paragraphs. Brutal. Dude, I like that you have a lot to say but you lose my interest around chapter 7. Props to DMAC and everyone else on this board that understands what Hendry is trying to accomplish, and can applaud when our team is finally trying to have a productive offseason, rather than just complain about not getting this pitcher, or why did we pay that much. YOU ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BITCH WHEN THE CUBS DON'T SPEND THE MONEY, YET COMPLAIN WHEN THEY DO! hendry is competing with the rest of the league for quality pitchers, and Marquis is a SOLID addition to a shakey young pitching staff.

  • Anthony

    Aaron,

    Patterson has been in the minors for TWO YEARS and excelled ONLY at single-A ball in 05'. He hit .263 last year in AAA with 89 KO's in 441 at bats. So, the answer to your question "hasn't he earned the right" = NO, he hasn't.

    All of our young pitchers pitched MANY MANY MANY more bad innings last year than good. Perhaps some are only recalling their good outings. I was watching or at many games where these guys (Marshall, Guzman, etc) gave up 5+ runs in less than 5 innings. The reality is these guys were only up in the majors last year bc of the injuries to our starters. They should be in the minors learning and then brought up when they are ready. We cannot and should not rush these young pitchers.

  • daverj

    Just some thought on a number of names being tossed around:

    Marquis - I don't really like the signing. I would have preferred Marshall for the 5th spot. That said, he's always had pretty good stuff and 5 years ago was a highly touted prospect. A turn around is possible.



    Mateo/Marmol - Each of these guys need a year a AAA. Keeping them in the majors would be a bad idea.

    O'Malley - Will never be more than a major league middle reliever, at best.

    Marshall/Guzman - Probably could be a 5th starter now, but will benefit from starting the season at AAA. Both of these guys may be helping us by mid-season if our starters get hurt (Prior, Miller) or struggle (Marquis, Hill - who appears to have turned the corner, but may revert back to his struggling form like many pitchers do after just a couple months of success).

    Cubs Bullpen - With Cotts, Wood, Eyre, Howry, Dempster and Wuertz, the Cubs have one of the best bullpens in baseball. Many are discounting this, but it will be a huge factor this season.

    Hendry Blasters - Dead on in terms of the last two seasons ... he wasn't aggresive and didn't have back up plans in the event of injuries. Dead wrong in terms of this year. He's the done the best that he possibly could this offseason given what was available. We now have extra starters in the event of injuries. We also have starters that can give us some innings so that the bullpen doesn't wear down.

  • DMac

    you talk about giving guys a chance....correct me if i'm wrong, were you not one of the proponents for giving up on Cedeno at age 23 and Isturiz at age 25? Isturiz had a breakout MLB season in his third year in the big leagues. No one knows if that was legit or not, because injuries hampered his entire year last year. shouldn't he be afforded an opportunity to show if that was legit under "Beane" statistical theory which, if i may add a critical comment, has yet to prove any sort of success in the post season. Beane's theory works great for small market teams, or at least it has proved to be workable for him. The Cubs are not a small market team

  • Aaron

    Austin....Actually, Clemens was great his first year....No, I wasn't saying sign everybody---just that we should've gotten Furcal and Beltran, and furthermore, I mentioned, if you read further, that you sometimes have to make a trade to get talent rather than sign someone just to sign them....you hit it on the nose Austin----Marquis was signed because we didn't get Meche, and Burnitz was signed b/c we didn't get Beltran....I'd go further to say Lilly was signed b/c we lost out on Schmidt, Pierre was traded for when we lost out on Furcal and gave up THREE top prospects, and Ward was signed when we lost out on Drew. The thing is, we haven't had "Plan B" options. We've had "Plan F"---as in the grade I would give all the options. Look, if you don't get who you really want, you either make a trade, or you give a young guy the chance to earn his stripes....you don't give sub-par talent 3-4 year contracts averaging anywhere from 8-10 million!!!! That's ludicrous.

    I'm not saying that Patterson is the answer, and will be the second coming of RYNO....but hasn't he earned the right to be considered for it????? I'm not saying that Marshall/Marmol/Mateo/O'Malley/Guzman are the second coming of Pedro or Johnson, or Clemens....but don't you think their collective average ERA of 5.30 is worth taking a chance on as opposed to a guy like Marquis who has been on the decline? You throw out Guzman--the high score in the equation, and you now have a 4.78 average ERA for Marmol/Marshall/O'Malley/Mateo...crossing into Lilly's territory. So you can't tell me that Lilly is worth 10 million, or Marquis 7-8 million, when the collective contracts of guys that can throw as good, if not better than you is 1.65 million, or an average of about $330,000 a year.

    So if you ask me are those pitchers better than Lilly or Marquis? I'd have to say, no, I don't know what performances they'll turn in next year, but I CAN tell you that simply looking at their historical stats and applying Beane's statistical analysis of the entire situation suggests that giving these guys a chance to prove themselves would be a prudent organizational move. After all, the Yankees had to eventually give Soriano a chance, and he ultimately landed them arguably the best player in the game today in AROD...The Rangers had to give Texeira and Young a chance eventually, and the best case in point is the '06 Marlins and their youth. Hanley Ramirez got a shot after being stuck in the Red Sox system. Jacobs got a shot after being stuck behind in the Mets organization, Willis got a chance after being traded----he would've been stuck for 5 years in our system before he'd be called up...and the list goes on. It's like we have a bust in Choi (though his concussion was a main factor), or some say Patterson was a bust (I disagree b/c of poor coaching), and everyone is afraid to give guys a chance.....but Hendry's too much in the mode of playing favorites----only his "guys" get a chance to prove themselves...like Murton and Barrett, while others are sentenced to oblivion in our system. Patterson might flourish...and given his speed, and ability to hit for power, I'd say his chances of succeeding are high. And wouldn't you rather see an exciting player like him who can bunt to get on base, steal, AND hit for power, than a guy like DeRosa who will clog up the basepaths, hits for average power, and has about the same batting average? Give the kids a chance....I'm not saying all at once either....Figure we'll have 12 pitchers....I say get rid of Novoa, and insert a rookie into the bullpen to gain more experience. That leaves 5 bench spots, which will go to Blanco, Pagan (hopefully), Ward, Theriot/Cedeno, and the other SHOULD be Patterson NOT Floyd, which I fear it will be

  • Jeff in AZ

    Well said Gramps and Ryan! Go Cubs!

  • Aaron

    Austin....Actually, Clemens was great his first year....No, I wasn't saying sign everybody---just that we should've gotten Furcal and Beltran, and furthermore, I mentioned, if you read further, that you sometimes have to make a trade to get talent rather than sign someone just to sign them....you hit it on the nose Austin----Marquis was signed because we didn't get Meche, and Burnitz was signed b/c we didn't get Beltran....I'd go further to say Lilly was signed b/c we lost out on Schmidt, Pierre was traded for when we lost out on Furcal and gave up THREE top prospects, and Ward was signed when we lost out on Drew. The thing is, we haven't had "Plan B" options. We've had "Plan F"---as in the grade I would give all the options. Look, if you don't get who you really want, you either make a trade, or you give a young guy the chance to earn his stripes....you don't give sub-par talent 3-4 year contracts averaging anywhere from 8-10 million!!!! That's ludicrous.

    I'm not saying that Patterson is the answer, and will be the second coming of RYNO....but hasn't he earned the right to be considered for it????? I'm not saying that Marshall/Marmol/Mateo/O'Malley/Guzman are the second coming of Pedro or Johnson, or Clemens....but don't you think their collective average ERA of 5.30 is worth taking a chance on as opposed to a guy like Marquis who has been on the decline? You throw out Guzman--the high score in the equation, and you now have a 4.78 average ERA for Marmol/Marshall/O'Malley/Mateo...crossing into Lilly's territory. So you can't tell me that Lilly is worth 10 million, or Marquis 7-8 million, when the collective contracts of guys that can throw as good, if not better than you is 1.65 million, or an average of about $330,000 a year.

    So if you ask me are those pitchers better than Lilly or Marquis? I'd have to say, no, I don't know what performances they'll turn in next year, but I CAN tell you that simply looking at their historical stats and applying Beane's statistical analysis of the entire situation suggests that giving these guys a chance to prove themselves would be a prudent organizational move. After all, the Yankees had to eventually give Soriano a chance, and he ultimately landed them arguably the best player in the game today in AROD...The Rangers had to give Texeira and Young a chance eventually, and the best case in point is the '06 Marlins and their youth. Hanley Ramirez got a shot after being stuck in the Red Sox system. Jacobs got a shot after being stuck behind in the Mets organization, Willis got a chance after being traded----he would've been stuck for 5 years in our system before he'd be called up...and the list goes on. It's like we have a bust in Choi (though his concussion was a main factor), or some say Patterson was a bust (I disagree b/c of poor coaching), and everyone is afraid to give guys a chance.....but Hendry's too much in the mode of playing favorites----only his "guys" get a chance to prove themselves...like Murton and Barrett, while others are sentenced to oblivion in our system. Patterson might flourish...and given his speed, and ability to hit for power, I'd say his chances of succeeding are high. And wouldn't you rather see an exciting player like him who can bunt to get on base, steal, AND hit for power, than a guy like DeRosa who will clog up the basepaths, hits for average power, and has about the same batting average? Give the kids a chance....I'm not saying all at once either....Figure we'll have 12 pitchers....I say get rid of Novoa, and insert a rookie into the bullpen to gain more experience. That leaves 5 bench spots, which will go to Blanco, Pagan (hopefully), Ward, Theriot/Cedeno, and the other SHOULD be Patterson NOT Floyd, which I fear it will be

  • DMac

    Agreed, Marquis and Lilly aren't the answer to a world series team, but I think its a step in the right diretion. Good points also made that just because the Cubs offer money, doesn't guarentee the guy is going to come to chicago. as much as we would all like to think that anyone would want to play for the Cubs, that is not the case. As for JD Drew, he is a great player, when healthy. I would love to see him in a cubs uniform if he could [prove that he can stay healthy, he has yet to do so. (Games played thoughtout his career: 104, 135, 109, 135, 100, 145, 72, 146)

    As for a reason why I am excited for the two new additions to the starting rotation: 201.1, 207, 194.1. Those are the innings logged for Marquis the last three years. Yeah he had a horrible season last year for the cards, but it is quite possible something terrible went wrong with his mechanics mid year as proven by his 3-10 record after the break. (hopefully this is a minor glitch, the Cubs staff is able to fix). 197, 126, 181. those are the innings pitched for lilly. Although not wonderful, definitly better than most innings logged for Cubs starters the last three years minus Big Z and Maddux. Hopefully these guys can stay healthy and provide sme innings so our bullpen isn't taxed. they should keep the Cubs in some ball games with an improved offense and help win some one run ballgames for a change.

    With regards to the argument that despite marquis logging that many innings, his ERA and record was bad. My rebuttal is....he must have at least been keeping them in the ballgame, cause last I checked the Cards have consistently been one of the better if not the best team in the NL the last three years. and he was int he starting rotation during those years.

    Again, I am not predicting world series right off the bat, but this does provide some excitement. And it is highly doubtful Hendry is done especially by looking at the 40 man roster with an abundance of young pitching.

  • Ryan

    To all those that say "I've been a Cubs fan too long to hope." Leave. Just leave. If you can't have hope then what do you have? What other year has ANY Cubs GM done anything like this? NONE. You want to crucify JH and the Cubs for not getting guys or getting the wrong guy, fine, your entitled to do that, IF we win your not invited to the party. Of course IF that happens I'm sure that everyone will gladdly jump on the bandwagon. Or maybe there will still be those that say, "JH is and idiot, if we had gotten Schmidt then we would have clinched in 5 games and not 7." Somehow I doubt it. Call it blind hope or whatever. What else is their? I would say that this year its not. But please, if thats the way you feel, then please wait until the payrol is a billion dollars and we resign the entire NL allstar team from the year before and Gammons and Morgan and all the other "experts" on ESPN and other places unanamously agree that the Cubs are the best team in the land.

  • Gramps

    Blah! Blah! Blah! I don't get it! Hendry signs the #1 guy in the free agent class, signs 2 pitchers, an

    infielder/outfielder and people are bitching why we did not get this guy or that guy. Hey guys, there are other teams out there. Sure, in an ideal world we would have the best player at each position on our team, but that is not the way things go. I just feel we have to give all these guys a decent chance before we start ragging on them. Remember, even that team with an all-star at every position is not a sure thing to win it all. There is a a lot more to this crazy game. I applaud Hendry for what he has done so far. Do I agree with everything he has done? No, I don't, but I will give him a chance to show me that he has brought a team together that has a chance to win this year. I am happy that he has done what he has. It's a hell of a lot better than what has been done in the past. I think we should chill out a little and look forward to the season starting. Go Cubs!!!!

  • Anthony

    I'm glad the haters out there have given DeRosa, a GREAT clubhouse guy coming off a .296 13HR-74RBI-78RUN year with an OBP of .356, a chance before calling him the second coming of Nefi Perez. I was neither happy nor displeased with his signing, but I've had several of my White Sox friends (the ones who loathe the Cubs) admit that "you're really going to like this guy. He plays everywhere, plays hard and knows how to play smart baseball. But that's not important to some. They don't know a guy's name so he must be a nobody.

    I'm also glad you haters have Lily all figured out. Since his name is not Zito or Schmidt, he surely must be a joke. 4 straight seasons of double digit victories means nothing. Go ahead ignore the fact that he had a 4.31 ERA in the most competitive division in baseball (plus it's inflated being in the AL) and had a 2 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio. Forget that he's at the age where pitchers mature and get even better and is already past the growing pains of youth.

    Will these guys be the BEST FA pick ups when all the stats are compared at the end of this year? Probably NOT, but they are coming here trying to help this team do something it hasn't done in a long time.........win.

    I know this sounds crazy, but how about giving these guys a chance before crucifying them? That's all we're asking. Plus, I definitely don't have a problem with people not agreeing with Hendry, Sweet Lou, other fans, posts, etc. but the extreme negatively, bordering on hate, seems almost out of line. I disdain the koolaid keg drinkers myself, but I also don't care for the hate. Thanks for listening.

  • Adam in Iowa...Welcome!!!

    Aaron, you are right about the option on Prior...at least the way I understand it as well. Prior does not have any options because of service time at the Major League level (service time is three years). If the Cubs were to try to send Prior to Iowa to start the year he would have to clear waivers first.

    But wouldn't that be a great problem for Piniella to have, a fully healthy pitching staff when they leave Mesa....Dusty had that 1 year, 2003.

  • Adam in Iowa

    I think Marquis is an upgrade over what we had in the #5 slot last year. Rusch, Marshall, Marmol, Guzman and Mateo all split time in the rotation at #5. Their stats were HORRIBLE (15-33 with a combined ERA of 6.26).

    A #5 starter on a good team is meant to eat up innings, and have close to a .500 record. He's not going to put up Cy Young numbers.

    Minnesota's #5 pitchers last year (Bonser & Baker) went 12-14 with a 5.18 ERA. The White Sox (Vazquez) went 11-12 with a 4.84. San Diego's #5's went 11-12 with a 4.95. The Dodgers #5's were 9-11 with a 4.20.

    These were all teams that either made the playoffs, or came really close.

    I think Marquis will do just fine as a #5, because he will eat up innings (taking pressure off the bullpen), and he won't lose EVERY game he pitches, like our #5's did last year. I personally like the signing, and I think some of you guys are expecting way too much out of a guy who is going to be a #5 in the rotation. If anybody is going to take the Cubs to a World Series, it's going to be Z, Hill and a healthy Prior. Lilly and Marquis are just role guys, and there wasn't anyone out there (not even Schmidt or Zito) who was going to put a team on their back and win a World Series for them.

    All of that being said, I would have preferred Hendry to make a push for Mulder. Over the last five seasons (excluding last year when he was injured) he's gone 21-9, 19-7, 15-9, 17-8, 16-8. His ERA was only above 4.00 in one of those seasons, which is pretty good considering he was in the American League all but one of those years.

    Why hasn't Mulder been a target? I think whoever signs him is going to get the steal of the offseason, because he is probably going to get about the same money as Lilly and Meche, but produce at a much higher level.

    I'm new to this site, and I have to say I LOVE IT! I knew there were other Cubs fanatics like me out there in the world, but I hadn't found them until recently.

  • Larry

    I have to admit, I agree with Aaron. We have a lot of pitching talent, and high quality pitching talent at that in the minor leagues. I had envisioned an 08 rotation that looked something like this. Zambrano, Hill, Marshall, Marmol, and Veal with 07 being a great opportunity for many of our younger pitchers to get their feet wet. This is a group of quality young arms that is going to keep you in the any playoff race for many years to come.

    With the additions of Lilly and Marquis, this seriously puts a damper on the progress of any of the quality arms that we have in our farm system.

    One good thing I see in Pinella over Baker though, Baker would give a struggling pitcher an entire season,or more, to work through their problems. I see Pinella as the type of manager that isn't going to put up with mediocore pitching for very long. If Marquis pitches like he did last season, he will be out of the rotation by the end of May.

    I think this signing, but more importantly the signing of Pinella, says that the Cubs see some talent in him, but he better figure it out in a hurry or else Lou will bury him a** up he will have a place to park his bike.

  • cliff

    Aaron - top ten post of the offseason. thank you for the dose of reality. i too am sick of buying the crap. to quote your post... there were mustangs out there this year which coincidentally were in the same positions as our holes. Instead, like you said, we went with one Mustang and a handfull of Escorts(Lilly, Ward, & Derosa) and a Pinto(Marquis). These are Pittsburgh Pirate and Milwaukee brewer type moves. If you people are excited about these moves then you need to lay off the koolaid.

  • cliff

    Aaron - top ten post of the offseason. thank you for the dose of reality. i too am sick of buying the crap. to quote your post... there were mustangs out there this year which coincidentally were in the same positions as our holes. Instead, like you said, we went with one Mustang and a handfull of Escorts(Lilly, Ward, & Derosa) and a Pinto(Marquis). These are Pittsburgh Pirate and Milwaukee brewer type moves. If you people are excited about these moves then you need to lay off the koolaid.

  • Austin

    Aaron,

    It's not that simple. You can't just go out there and buy guys off the shelf, they have to want to play for you. You can't say Hendry could've/should've had Beltran and Furcal, he tried, it was down to us and another team for both those players, and they chose the other team. Sure, it's easy to say, why dont we get Zito and Schmidt? Because we spent money on Soriano, we could only afford one of them, and we needed two. Scmidt didn't want to play for us, and Zito is too expensive, so we went after the next best guy, Lilly. Meche didnt want to come to Chicago and Colorado doesn't want to trade Jennings, you cant just make things happen.

    With that being said, the Cubs are in a win-now mode. That means there is no way we were going to start the season with Patterson at 2B, Pie in CF, and a rotation of Z-Lilly-Hill-Marmol/Marshall/Miller/Prior combo. I know you would say THAT is not the best team on the field we could have out there. But, it will be something like that because we couldnt get everything we wanted. And I don't care how many prospects you through at MIN, they aren't going to just trade Santana. Would you have traded Prior in the offseason following 2003?

    We did match Drew's offer. We had a good offer on the table for Lugo. You can't MAKE them sign. Burnitz was a fallout plan after we lost out on Beltran, and Marquis is that guy to Meche.

    What if Beltran goes out for the season this year? Or Furcal bats .220? Lets say Schmidt gets drilled in LA and Zito doesn't do well wherever he signs. Who knows, you cant just assume everything is going to work out.

    Hendry is putting the best team available out there. He tried to do everything he could, put players cost money, and rookies take time to develop, that is time, and now money, we dont have. We can't just go out there and get everyone we want. It't not like Clemens was a Cy Young winner his first year, nor was Maddux, it's rare to get a rookie like Verlander who immediately does well, give the rookies some time, becuase it's all we have. We have a good enough offense, and a good team.

  • Jim

    I hope your right but I have been a cubs fan to long to hope.

  • Ryan

    Well, I'm not high on those guys per say. If those guys were supposed to be the big offseason signings then I would think Hendry in drunk. Merely, I think that they are good role player pieces to the whole puzzle that has not yet been completed. I mean after Soriano, we're automatically supposed to go and get the best second baseman in the game? DeRossa is exactly what JH is paying him to be. A good defensive 2b with decent offensive numbers. Marquis is exactly what the Cubs are paying him to be. A 4-5 postion starter that eats innings and can win you 13-15 games. Small pieces that helps keep the Cubs machine rolling. Kind of like Karros and Gruds in 03. Those weren't exactly blockbuster deals. Look, before the Yankees got A-Rod the had Aaron Boone. They still would have him as their 3B if he didn't blow out his knee playing basketball, thereby voiding his contract, and the Red-Sox would have A-Rod. Even the Yankees can't buy the best of everybody. So you go out and pay a little more for guys that know what their role is on a good team and just do their job. Of, course if Marquis is the guy that "fills out the rotation" like the Trib is reporting, then I'm probably going to have to eat my words about the guy being insurance. I still don't think that JH is done.

    Also, if DeRossa and Marquis fail, I don't think that Lou will hesitate one bit at replacing them with younger players. Plus I don't think that Lou would make a statement likt "we're going to go and get a big left handed bat" just to BS people. If Lou's known for one thing its blatent, in your face, spitting, hat-throwing, brutal honesty.

  • Jim

    Ryan, Jeff why are you guys so high on Marquis and Derosa? Aaron makes a great point about Glooroo and Nefi to Derosa and Marquis.

  • Ryan

    So muchin that last post yet so little time to dispute it. Since when are prospects ie Eric Patterson given a chance in lieu of signing at least average established pros? IE Derossa? Didn't we try that last year with Cedeno? Patterson may be the next coming of Sanberg, or he may also be the next Jerome Walton/Dwight Smith. Remember those guys? ME neither

  • Geen

    I am not thrilled with this signing if the cubs are committed to Marquis as their # 5 starter. My guess is that he is just a part of the plan. The cubs have been saying for weeks that they think they know how to help Marquis return to his 2004 form. If they can he is good enough to be a #4 starter on any team if not one of the others Prior/Miller/Marshall etc will hopefully step up and maybe Spendrey will still get a guy like Jennings. If a deal for Jennings or someone else is still in the cards (kind of an intended pun) then the Cubs have pitching/ Jones and Ronnie etc. to trade. But back to Marquis for a second he has been a Major league pitcher for 7 seasons of those 7 seasons he had been a real starter for 3 of those years and did some starting pitching for two years. (3 years with over 30 games started one with 22 and one with 16). In 2004 he went 15-7 with a 3.71 ERA and walked 70 and struck out 138, which would be good enough to be a #3 or #4, starter on most teams. In 2005 he won 13 walked 69 and struck out 100 with a 4.13 these days those are # 5 starter numbers. If Marquis can pitch like he did in 2004 and I hope so if not one of the others will be starting.

  • Aaron

    Neil...or anyone else for that matter.....Do you happen to know the rules regarding options on Prior...See, I've looked it up, and found that 5 yrs service time=player must approve or be placed on waivers, and a player has a total of 3 options, once placed on the 40-man and can be sent up as many times as he wishes during that season and it only counts as 1 option. Prior has never been optioned, but technically, has 5 years of service...though he was brought up for half of his first year in 2002. I guess what I'm saying is, now that we have:

    Zambrano--proven, excellent

    Hill--unproven, potential there, above average

    Lilly--proven, average

    Marquis--proven, below average

    Miller--proven, hurt, potential there, was above average

    ....and the host of rookies

    What happens to Prior if he's magically healthy? Truthfully, I don't want to lose him, and I feel that he has a chance to be like Carpenter when he overcame all his shoulder issues. We can't throw him on the 60 day DL if he's not injured and free up a roster spot....we can't send him to the minors if indeed he is considered to have 5 yrs service...so where does that leave him? We can't trade Lilly or Marquis until later in the year---June 15th to be precise, as all free agents come with an automatic no-trade clause until this date...But this is where it gets interesting. We just signed Kerry Wood and Wade Miller--our own free agents. Does this rule apply to them? I've searched all over, and cannot find an answer to that question.

    Therefore, if we cannot trade Miller, and cannot send Prior down, then our hands are pretty much tied, and we have to basically give Prior away, or perhaps sent him to the bullpen, which is probably a long shot. But, as I've said before, we have such a surplus now of good young pitching, that you'd hate to see some of them traded. I'd prefer letting Marmol, Marshall, Mateo, Ryu, and O'Malley in the AAA rotation, but that would block the development of Veal and Gallagher. Ryu is probably a bullpen guy, while you have 6 guys for 5 spots in the AAA rotation...or maybe you leave Veal and Gallagher at AA for half the year, who knows? But do you guys see what type of problem this creates----signing these mediocre guys like Lilly and Marquis? It blocks the path to the majors---hence our problems with development. You can't advance guys that have earned the right to play in the majors, because they're blocked by guys like Lilly and Marquis, or Novoa, or DeRosa. Instead of Lilly, I would've rather seen Marshall, and instead of Marquis, I would've taken anyone----even a Prior that maybe gives us only 15 starts. These moves just don't make sense.

    You sign Marquis and DeRosa for 3 years, blocking the development of all the afforementioned pitchers for Marquis' spot in the rotation, and you block Patterson at 2B. Unless DeRosa has a monster year (laughable), you'd never be able to trade a contract like that, and certainly not Marquis. To me, these signings were not much better than Rusch and Perez of last year.

    Remember when Dusty was like, "I don't know where we would've been without Neifi this year (filling in for Nomar)...G-Unit(as he aptly called Glendon) has done a tremendous job for us as well." So I guess missing the playoffs and a .270 avg .290 OBP and 9-8 W-L record and 4.60 ERA must earn you nice contract extensions for a job well done, right? Boy, we didn't miss Nomar at all with Neifi's outstanding production, and with injuries to Wood and Prior, we hardly missed a beat with G-Unit filling in so admirably.

    It's a joke guys....It's a joke that we get mediocre talent, and we're led to believe that Hendry has fielded the best team possible....If he did, we'd have Beltran and Furcal, and possibly even Soriano. If he did, we'd make trades like the White Sox have to get talent in their rotation to make a run deep into the playoffs and build around a cornerstone (Buehrle for them....Big Z for us). The Sox got Garcia, Vasquez, and Contreras to go with Buehrle and Garland (our version of Hill). All of which were PROVEN winners. So don't sell me on this garbage that Lilly and Marquis both have potential, because I'm not buying that crap. They've had several years to prove it, and have not made much progress at all, so why are you believing now, that once they come to the Cubs---they'll magically figure it out and become CY Young candidates.

    It's funny what losing does to you----makes you make rash, unwise decisions. For the sake of Cubbieland, I hope all these signings put us over the top, and FINALLY give us a championship...but I will not say that Hendry did a great job, when the only above average guy he signed was Soriano.

    If you think about it, technically we're going into next year with 1 excellent pitcher, 1 unproven pitcher, 1 average pitcher, 1 below average, and another between Miller/Prior coming back from injury....Do you honestly think that Hendry gave us the best chance to win it all next year with this rotation!?!?!?!?

    Sorry, I'm just frustrated to read all these comments about Hendry doing a great job picking up all these guys....NEWSFLASH...it's all about QUALITY over QUANTITY. Would you rather have 3 Ford Pintos or 1 brand new Mustang convertible? The Mustang would destroy the Pintos right out of the gate, so why would you take a gamble with 98 years of futility on 3 Pintos (Lilly, Marquis, DeRosa)? It just doesn't make sense...I'd trade Marshall, Mateo, Ryu in a heartbeat if it meant getting someone like Oswalt, Santana, Willis, Olsen, Johnson, Kazmir, or even Buerhle or Vasquez. Other teams have pulled off trades like this...why can't we? The only prospects I wouldn't trade would be Marmol, Pie, Patterson, Veal, and Gallagher, if it meant obtaining one of those guys.

    Is anyone else tired of signing the Coomer's, Gaetti's, Perez's, Stairs', and Burnitz's of this world? Soriano was a good step to show we meant business, but why did we all of a sudden back off from there? We knew Jones wanted out, so why didn't we move to sign a big lefty bat like Drew to replace his production. We know Izzy can't hit, and our offense was anemic last year, yet we didn't sign Lugo. Oh, my bad, I guess Ward is the big lefty bad we signed to replace Jones....Wait, this just in....Cubs are after Floyd.......YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS....kiss my ass 98 years of futility....World Series here we come....oops, this just in, "Floyd out for year due to achilles injury sustained when he lept out of his chair after hearing news the Cubs gave him 10 million a year for 3 years to be a backup"

  • Hubert

    OMG...why didn't they just go after Miguel Bautista...

    Not only did they sign an in-divison player, which means that everybody around the central knows how to hit this guy hard....he easily is the worst signing of the offseason..3/20...for an ERA over 6..ugh.

  • Jim

    So many of you were complaining about Larry Rothchild a couple of months ago. So easy to jump ship.

    Jeff if you read any of the eailier posts you would know that Dave Duncan is the cardinals pitching coach. I have been stuck down in St. Louis for a couple of years and have seen Marquis pitch quite often. He has a better bat than he is a pitcher. If Duncan and Mizzoni were so high on Marquis, why did both teams let him go?

    I am not a coach, just have an opinion on what I have seen as a fan. If your remark about me not having any major league coaching experience and not knowing what I am talking about then why was everyone on here so critical of Baker? If it is because of all the loses well rothchild was apart of that. "We had nine rookies pitch last season", and only one will make the rotation and another might make the team. 2 out 9, great coaching. Were all ready for the big-leagues.. probaly not. I was a college Div 1 athelete and I do know talent when I see it.

  • Jeff in AZ

    Ryan and DMAC-

    Props for looking at things objectively, and realizing that none of us really knows who good Rothschild really is or isn't. I didn't see anyone bitch about how Marshall and Marmol pitched at times last year, or how Hill developed in the second half, but we can all sit and laugh and call him "towel boy" when he isn't responsible for the injuries to prior or wood, and did pretty damn well with the rookies last year. I have also noticed on this site that those who complain about Rothschild never present any other canidates for the job, they just complain about the way things are.

  • Agustin Rexach

    great point DMac...

  • Jeff in AZ

    Some of the posts here really make me laugh,at what level have you coached Jim? Larry Rothchild has earned the respect of Lou Pinella, Jim hendry, Jim leland who tried to steal him away from the Cubs last year, and yet you, who probably has no major league coaching experience, will criticize an established major league pitching coach while comparing him to the Cardinals Coaching staff who without a quick google search I'm sure you can't even tell me who is the Cardinals pitching coach. For that I'm at a loss for words. If rothcild is so bad, tell me your plan for a coaching staff and why you are more qualified than Pinella to pick the Cubs staff? Secondly, tell me someone better on the market than Marquis at the price we got him, 7 million a year, and don't give me any crap about Westbrook or Jennings, because no one wants are crap, i.e Jacques Jones and Ronny Cedeno, for an established starter. It's easy to bitch about what the cubs are doing, but unless you have a better plan, save it.

  • Agustin Rexach

    J. Marquis is a great offensive addition! He has a better bat than Zambrano [ just less pop] but sadly he isn't a switch hitter. However, with the Marquis addition and a projected patient Lilly at the plate [Baseballprospectus.bull] learns to take a pitch [work the OBP with Lou] and hopefully a healthy Wood can give us a couple of good at bats, Big Z in his normal stands and maybe some MILLER time pop... wuhooo, we got a pitching staff that by themselves should produce more offense that our last year team!

    Seriously, I think this pick-up is a win-win situation.

    1-protects this deteriorated farm system from Pierre-like trades not to mention Willis.

    2-compare him to Lilly and he even has a better over all record and had a superb 2004 [just two years ago and he is only 28 years old].

    3-If he pitches the first half the way he pitched it last year [11-6], he will become a huge weapon in the trade deadline and will be @ the All-Star representing the Cubs.

    4-If he does a bad job like last in the second half; he will have pitched 100 innings or more and bought time for Prior/Miller and/or resting time for Marshall.

    5-If Mazzone and Duncan [who you guys say are the best pitching coaches] insisted on Marquis, that should tell you something about his chances. I think Larry is as good as this two plus Duncan can't teach his own kid how to catch a friggin' fly ball?!#

    6-Supply and demand.- If you have 10 girls to choose 1, you will pick the prettiest of them. If there's only one to choose and she looks Ok I might as well give her a shot! In other words…"Marquis could turn out to be a very nice girl"

    I think that Marquis will be better than Lilly and hopefully they will both be good. Also it is very good to have a big stock of pitchers to ease up our delicate but desired ladies....Prior/Wood/Marshall/Mateo/Guzman

    Go Cachorros de Chicago Dale!

  • Ryan

    DMac, thank you for being one of the people on here that sees at least SOME logic in what the Cubs are doing. I mean, we have one horrid season in reagards to pitching and suddenly LR is a chump? What about '03? Was he only half a chump then? I know, he said something to Prior in between the 7th and 8th inning of the 03 NLCS game 6. That MUSt have caused him to give up 8 runs in the 8th. That and he must have bought Bartmann's tickets for him.

    I'm of course being sarcastic, but if he wasn't a problem in 03-05, then why was he suddenly a problem in 06 when we were forced to rely on 9 rookies that everybody admits for the most part got thrown into the bigs a little before they were ready. I will fault JH for not going out and getting any pitching last offseason. I think though he has learned his leason.

  • Anthony

    It's definitely not horrible, but it just doesn't seem to be the marquee (pun intended) signing we've been waiting for. I guess after the Soriano signing, everything will seem relatively insignificant. I had really hoped we would sign at least one more stud in either the offense of pitching so I'm admittedly disappointed.

    I've been one of the people posting, bc I believed it, that Hendry has a plan and wasn't done yet. I really hope that this still holds true. I feel like we still should get Lofton to start. I heard from Levine that the Cubs have, or will, sign Ward soon and Bruce spoke very highly of the bench player. Still though, I would be disappointed if this was our staff going into the season because what that would tell me is while the Cubs Mgt have sworn they are not counting on Prior, by not signing anything more than another #5 pitcher, they must be counting highly on him. That would be a huge mistake.

  • DMac

    further commenting on the above posts. Jim, how does anyone know how often Marshall approached Rothschild or whether Marshall was asking Maddux how he likes his eggs. No one is in the dug out or clubhouse on a day to day basis to know what and who these guys talk about their problems. A lot of big league coahces have a lot of good things to say about Rothschild. Just because there have been some freak accidents and injuries with the Cubs starting pitchers does not give anyone reason to put all the blame on Rothschild. P.S. does anyone else see a coorelation between pitchers and good defensive catchers. remember in 03, our catcher was Damien Miller. With regards to Miller, he was with the A's when their staff was most dominant. He was also with D-Backs when their pitching was dominant. And he has helped the Brewers turn into a respectable pitching staff. hmm, just a thought.

  • Jim

    Its not looking for a reason to be bitter its looking at the facts. I can't be blindly optomistic when I have watched the cubs kill this guy every year. If you think that towel boy is better than Marquis previous coaches well then..... I am at a loss for words.

  • Ryan

    Sorry about the age thing on Marquis. Thats what I get for going against my own rule and trusting ESPN for anything, even stats. The story breaking the deal says that he is 26, and the stats page has him being 28. So the supposed experts at ESPN can't even read right. Sorry guys. Regardless, this isn't a terrible signing for 7 mil a year. While Mazzoni is close, he isn't the god of pitching. Maybe Marquis is a head case. Who knows? Nobody can argue that he does have talent, misdirected by himself it might be. Based on our projected payroll, this isn't a huge percentage for a little insurance.

  • Jeff in AZ

    Jim-

    Actually I can tell you of three pitchers that got better under Rothchild, Zambrano, Hill, and Clement. Prior and Wood are always hurt regardless of mechanics, can't blame that one on Larry, but if you're looking for a reason to be bitter go ahead. Welcome Jason Marquis.

  • Trevor

    I'm not thrilled with this signing BUT there is another way to look at it.

    Buy up way more starting pitching than you need and then when the All-Star break rolls around and every contending pitching is ALWAYS looking for pitching, even mediocre pitchers get more in trades at that time of the year.

    Keep signing pitchers, for no other reason than to control the price markup in July. Anticompetitive predatory conduct. (I have an Antitrust Final in 2 hours so this is the only way I can view this trade right now and have it make sense.)

  • Chad

    Ryan,

    Hill is 26, but your point is well taken.

    I would think Marshall and Marmol are near untouchables. Young pitching is worth more than ever because of the price of average pitchers.

  • Jim

    lol

  • Chad

    You guys are all wrong!!!!

    Marquis will be our new left-handed hitting CF.

  • Jim

    Marquis will be 29 in August. If he has been in the Majors since he was 19 and he still hasn't figured it out, I don't want him on my team for $6-9 mill a year. The guy is a total head case. If Leo Mazzoni or Dave Duncun (the two best pitching coaches in the MLB) can't teach him or fix his macanics, how will larry rothchild do any better???? I know Maddux thinks highly of rothchild but I haven't seen him make one pitcher better. Sean Marshall was asking Maddux rather than larry. Marquis will only get worse here. His HR totals last year were awful. I dislike this signing as much as I did the Jacque Jones signing.

  • Ryan

    Marquis is only 26. He's been in the majors since he was 19. i'm not saying this is a spectacular deal, but if he's been around that long then he must have some talent. His mechanics may be crap right now but at 26 I don't think he's unserviceable. I said it before. This is an insurance move by Hendry. His 14-16 record is ALOT better than the 9 rookies we threw out last year. Say all you want about the "potential" talent we have in Hill, who is 28 by the way, and Marshall, at least MArquis has proven that he can be a decebt major league pitcher from time to time.

    Its coming anyway, so evrybody feel free disect this 9 million times.............

  • Austin

    I still want the rotation to look like this going into spring training:

    1. Zambrano

    2. Lilly

    3. Hill

    4. Miller/Prior battle

    5. Marquis/Marmol/Marshall battle

    Also, I read that the Cubs are still interested in trying to trade for Jason Jennings. I really want that to happen, because it would pretty much solve this problem.

  • Jim (Tinley Park)

    This is an average, not spectacular pick up.

    The rotation now looks like:

    #1 Zambrano

    #2 Hill

    #3 Lilly

    #4 Marquis

    #5 Miller



    They still have all the young hurlers left to compete for the 5 spot and or trade. I hope this move forces them to make Prior earn a spot on the roster, if not, he starts out at Iowa.

    Hopefully, Marquis will pitch like he did with Atlanta. He still is young. The price for average pitchers is amazing!

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