Ah, nice to see that the last couple of days have generated a good debate. Whats going on Neil, Jason B, 2 jims?

Let us not forget the role of Prior and Wood in all of this. I would not count on EITHER of the two being a regular starter in 07. Yes, Prior too -- will have to be regarded as a no.4 or 5 starter till he proves his durability. When healthy, he is second only to Zambrano on the Cubs staff -- but Rich Hill seems to have come on and could fill the no.3 role pretty well. With Z up top, we need to trade for a solid, proven no.2 guy -- Jason Schmidt wouldn't be a bad fit here.

Z, Schmidt, Hill, Prior(hopefully) and then a rotating cast of younger guys in the no.5 spot (Marmol etc).

And tragically, i think the time has come to part ways with Ryan Dempster too. He has good stuff and a nice demeanour --- but he is going the way of LaTroy Hawkins .

Wuertz, Eyre and Howry should be brought back, but none of them should close. They would be perfect in their setup roles. With a closer, you need a guy with Ice Blood or electrifying stuff. You cant have an in-between guy succeed in the long run. The only guy within the current Cubs set up that fits the latter description is good old Kerry Wood. If he can get himself warmed up faster, he can be potentially unhittable. And hopefully, keeping the innnigs down to about 60 will allow him to pitch a whole year.

So, A no.2 starter ---- A new closer or a rehabbed Woody as Closer --- and another solid bullpen guy to pick up the slack incase Woody goes down -- which is quite likely -- maybe a Keith Foulke, Dan Wheeler kinda guy.

my 2 cents..

Guys,

The only reason Juan Pierre would not be back next year is if another team offers him more money than the Cubs.

Don't buy into the "Dusty is gone, so now is JP" line. The world doesn't work like that. Who, exactly, would Pierre be getting back at? The fans? Hendry? The Tribune?

Do you really think Juan Pierre sits down with his family and says "well, the Cubs are offering me the most money, but Dusty isn't there anymore, so I am going to play for Kansas City instead?"

C'mon...Pierre may be emotional right now, but Dusty was just let go...today! Give it 24 hours, or a few days, and Pierre will cool off and remember it is a business, and even if he doesn't remember, his agent will.

Bottom-line, if the Cubs don't offer the best deal, then Pierre won't be back. If the Cubs decide to come in 2nd, like they did in the Furcal bidding, then Pierre will be gone.

If McDonough isn't lying through his teeth, and Hendry really has all these assets at his disposal, and they are really committed to rewarding the Cub fans, then they will pay to keep the best leadoff hitter the Cubs have had since...I don't know...Lou Brock?

But like I told you in my "The Hustle" column, be prepared for a line of bs about why the Cubs don't sign Pierre, and how their offer was "competitive" and they will somehow raise the ticket prices, add more seats, and cry poor. This team probably makes more money than any other in mlb...no reason they shouldn't have, at least, the 2nd highest payroll in all of baseball.

My two cents:

Dusty Baker is a good man. By all accounts he is a good dad and he is respectful of people. In 2003, he had the right attitude and the right players and they did it.

In 2004, he made a few questionable calls during the collapse (pointed out by Steve Stone who was later fired for being vocal.)

In 2005, things got worse and the Cubs finished 19 games worse than the previous season at 79-83.

In 2006, that record was 26 games under .500 worse at 66-96. I know the difference is only 13 games, but they were 88-74 in 2003, and three years later they won 22 games less.

Does Dusty know why Kerry Wood has a bad arm or Mark Prior has whatever he has. Does Dusty know why Derrek Lee was in the wrong place at the wrong time or why Aramis can't play up to his potential during meaningful games.

Sure players like him, he is loose and jokes around and lets them be men. You cannot say he doesn't come down on them hard because you are not in the locker, neither am I, we really do not know what happened.

However, I know that the trend was awful. Are Hendry and MacPhail more responsible, sure they are, much more. But the obvious mentions of getting Neifi and Bynum at bats, or worrying about 'clogging up the bases' goes against conventional baseball wisdom.

I never played in the majors, I am only a fan, and Dusty has been successful, but I will say that the trend was awful and he wanted out just as much as some of us wanted him gone.

Let's face it, JP is gone. Aramis may be as well. Let's just hope that Girardi brings the Hawk with him and we can get this thing moving in the right direction.

It is a sad day, I hate when managers get fired, but today was the best day the Cubs have had since before Furcal ran over Derrek Lee. It is the offseason, there will be a new manager, hope is in the air.

Barry & Jeff,

It is human nature to question, 2nd guess if you will, the moves of the manager. I have had a million questions on Dusty's moves, BUT this is not the reason I am glad to see him go. It is much more than that. The first and foremost reason, and the only one I will address here, was his refusal to hold himself or anyone on the team accountable for anything. It was either the announcers fault, the fans fault (by booing), the injuries, the lack of sleep, playing during the day, the sun, the wind, the heat, the cold, the toothpicks, etc. I just want someone to come in and take some darned responsibility. I personally would respect and play harder for a manager who drove me to be the best and who helped the TEAM WIN, not one who let me do anything I wanted and made excuses every time I, or the team, did poorly.

While I certainly bleed Cubbie Blue, I do not drink the Koolaid. I do my best to call them like I see them, good or bad. With that being said, I am looking forward to this offseason bc at the very least we will know how serious the Cubs are about winning. I heard McDonough on the radio today and he certainly did say all the right things. I was beginning to get excited, but then I remembered that I've heard that before. If, and only if, the Cubs brass makes some serious moves this offseason to bring a winner to the North Side, then I will really get excited. Here's to hoping.

In a world that isn't cruel, todays press confrence never would have took place. The Cubs would have won the 2003 World Series and would have repeated the feat the following year or would have at least made the playoffs. Instead, neither happened. Dusty Baker never got that extension and the cubs sunk into despair. I've said this many times before, Jim Hendry created this slop and Dusty Baker made it worse. A change of direction began late Sunday afternoon with the Macphail era ending and the Dusty Baker departure on Monday.

As we all know, John McDonough has replaced Macphail. I have no idea if McDonough and Hendry can pull this off, the one thing I do know is they cannot continue to make the same mistakes again. Hendry must address the starting pitching, the outfield, and of course his own free agents to be that he wants to keep. His possible, final, managerial pick will be his next move.

I am sorry that Dusty is gone, If Dusty would have been kept, that would have meant that he was succesful. Instead, I will have witnessed every cub manager fron Durocher to Baker without the phrase World Series Champion Manager of the Chicago Cubs affixed to the name.

My thoughts on Dusty being fired:

I also don't give him all the blame, but I agree with Jason. He was not a good bench manager. Just because guys like to play for Dusty does not mean he is a good manager. The OBP is the main thing that got to me this year and last. You have to adjust if you don't have Sosa or Bonds in your lineup. A great example of this is Minnesota. They put men on base any way they can. They first and second and first and third you to death. They clog the basepaths and get their runners to the next base. Way too many times Dusty just sat there and encouraged his guys to be "aggressive". Look at Patterson and now Cedeno. They both went downhill during the season. How many times do we have to look at a Cub swing at pitches over their head? How many times do we have to watch a runner stranded at 3rd base because no contact is made. They do not have any discipline in their approach to the game. I hope we get a manager that can get through to this team because I see a lot of talent as the team stands right now. I agree Dusty got a bad hand with the injuries to the pitching staff, but remember other teams had injuries as well. I agree with Jason that Dusty had to go because of the way he manages. I also hope we can keep Pierre and Ramirez. But remember: players will go where the money is -- period! I want a manager like Durocher was; the first time he walked into the clubhouse, he told the entire team he is the boss and if they don't like it he would back up the truck and they could get the hell out. He did not care who liked playing for him. He was the manager and they played for him and got paid for playing. I just never saw that with Dusty. All I can say is that I am glad Dusty is gone. And good luck to him wherever he goes.

Oh yeah

6) Fire the entire Medical Staff and Larry Rothchild. What has he done? I don't hear Zambrano talking Larry up. I have never heard anyone do that

Sad Day to be a Cubs fan. On the same Day we let Dusty go we lose JP. No way we keep him unless Dontrell Willis tells him Giardi is a great manager to play for and JP re-signs. Don't count on it. If you thought this season was bad wait till nexy year. We will be lucky to hold onto Aramis. I don't see the cubs going out and signing anyone worth while. We will probaly go out and sign someone like Woody Williams and be fed a bunch of B.S. on how "he is so happy to be playing at Wrigley" "its been a dream to come and play hear." Didn't JP say something along those lines. Didn't he say that he has a picture of Wrigley at his home and loves to play at Wrigley.

I don't know how much more Bullsh*t I can eat from the Tribune Co. I have been a fan since I was 5 and I have never been so negitive about an upcoming season.

The only way that I will be happy going inot next year is if??????

1) keep Aramis in Cubby Blue

2) re-sign Pierre (would be a huge lose) remember 04 after we lost Lofton.

3) Sign Woody

4) Trade JJ. I like his bat but he can't play the outfield and has no idea what to do on the bases. Witht the year he had we could get something good in return.

5) Last but not least. GET PROVEN STARTERS. If you want to re-sign Miller as a 6th man OK. We need to trade sign do whatever to get a proven srarter who can last more than 5 innings. Dusty gets blamed for using his bullpen to much!!?? Are you kidding me. What was he supposed to do? The rotation he was give, The rotation he was given couldn't last more than 5 innings a game.

With a healthy D-Lee back in the lineup will boost the offense and cut down on errors on Defence.

Pierre

Theriot

Lee

Aramis

Barrett

Murton

I would rather see Pagan in Right than Jones.

Izturez

Thats a good lineup. Now all we need to do is the right thing. To bad we are the Cubs.

Brian, I'm sorry for the confusion but Dusty has been our best manager in years. Yes I said it, in YEARS!! I just personally believe we made a bad business decision. It was not Dusty's fault that Prior & Wood was/is hurt 99% of the time, or D-lee's freak inury.The only time he had a complete & healty team was in '03 and we remember how that turned out.

My opinion is all of the coaches, trainers and management are to blame just not 1 man.

I'm ready for the offseason moves to start already, Hendry please loosen up the wallet and sign some key players. Take care everyone.

Brian, I'm sorry for the confusion but Dusty has been our best manager in years. Yes I said it, in YEARS!! I just personally believe we made a bad business decision. It was not Dusty's fault that Prior & Wood was/is hurt 99% of the time, or D-lee's freak inury.The only time he had a complete & healty team was in '03 and we remember how that turned out.

My opinion is all of the coaches, trainers and management are to blame just not 1 man.

I'm ready for the offseason moves to start already, Hendry please loosen up the wallet and sign some key players. Take care everyone.

Barry & Jeff,

Everyone's opinion is respected on this forum, but your support of Baker has me utterly confused.

First, let me stress I wanted Baker gone, not because of the Cubs record this year, or last year. Rather, I want him gone because of how he actually manages a baseball team...period.

"Players love to play for Dusty". Guess what: people in corporate America love to work for bosses that don't hold them to high standards, that don't micromanage them, and that don't crew them out. That doesn't mean that people become more effective, just because they like their boss! In fact, if you don't have someone holding you accountable, the natural human tendency is to do just enough to get by. That is a fact. That is why salesmen work a lot harder than people at the DMV. Also, the Cubs have not gotten a single free agent because of Dusty's presence. Players signed here to play for the Cubs and/or because the Cubs paid them the most...period.

So when I say I am glad Dusty is gone, it does NOT mean that I blame the 2006 season entirely on Dusty. But just because the whole season was not his fault, doesn't mean he wasn't still a lousy manager.

Dusty is anti-OBP. This is proof, by itself, that Dusty shouldn't be managing. Over and over we heard Dusty cry about how the walks our pitchers gave up were killing us. Yet he didn't see value in our hitting taking walks?!?! This is insanity.

Dusty also doesn't manage a pitching staff well. I am not talking about injuries (I blame the trainers and Rothschild) and I am not talking about the lack of success our rookie pitchers had (I blame both Rothschild/Baker/and our farm system for that).

Dusty either leaves a pitcher in too long, and burns them out, or he overuses his bullpen. He can't seem to find that happy medium, which most other managers have no problem finding.

Dusty had a massive overreliance on his bench players, using them as part-time starters, instead of true bench players. The amount of at-bats that bench players like Neifi Perez, Todd Hollandsworth, Jose Macias, and Ramon Martinez have gotten, during Dusty's tenure, is unbelievable. I am not including time that they played due to injury, either.

Very rarely did the Cubs have their best players on the field each and every game, because Dusty wanted to give Bynum at-bats, or he wanted to keep Neifi "fresh", etc...

Dusty also never took the blame for anything...always quick with an excuse, and he fostered an attitude within the Cubs clubhouse that led to players blaming others rather than looking at themselves.

For those reasons alone, I am glad Dusty is gone.

A new manager will only make an improvement, though, if he focuses more on the important of discipline at the plate (OBP) and in the field (defense/fundamentals) and if his players are held accountable.

Barry, nice points!! I'm only relieved that the situation is over now we can move on and find another scapegoat to hire in case we don't win. Alot of fans will be happy if Giradi is hired, until we start losing and then they'll be asking why we hired a 2nd year manager instead of a vetran. We should have never GIVEN up on Dusty, Hendry should of given him 1-2 more years, find a few quality starting pitchers & keep them HEALTHY. Just read an article saying that Rothchild is coming back??? Any truth to that?? That's about right, fire our manager but yet our pitching coach probaly will get an extension and new towels for his coaching drills. Gotta love it!!!!

I love how MacPhail "resigns" and Baker isn't fired, he just isn't given a new contract.

No one is held accountable by the Tribsters...and this filters down through the GM, through the manager, and to the players.

That is why you have players criticizing the media, announcers, and anyone else buy themselves for their lack of effort and poor performances.

What good will getting Carlos Lee or Soriano be if we turn around and lose either Pierre or Ramirez?

Is Carlos Lee & Scott Moore a better combo than Matt Murton and Aramis Ramirez? I don't think so...

They are saying all the right things...but be careful, CCO Readers...actions will speak louder than words!

Okay Chicago Cub diehards,

I'm not sure how many of you are out there but I personally am not glad to see Dusty go. I'm sorry but it been a railroad ever since the Bartman Ball.

Why didn't Dusty go to the mound? Why didn't Dusty do this?? Why hasn't Dusty done that? I'm sick of backseat drivers, armchair QBs and office pool managers. If yo all know so much then quit your day jobs and hit the Tribune Executive Office Suite and do the job. Short of that....... Put a sock in it!!!

Dusty Baker is a class act and he will be missed. Players LOVE to work with and for him and you can only find a half a handful of those types of managers. We may lose JP just to make my point.

Fire the entire medical staff and you will effect the club in a positive way. I'm not happy at all. I'm glad MacPhail stepped down but cheese and rice, he got 12 years!!!!! Dusty gets four and out...... It's bullcrap and CUBS fans deserve better than that I mean just look hjow the guys were still scrapp'n till the final inning of the final game. Most clubs would have begun to see divisions and breaks in the comaraderie.

Dusty, thanks for your class act and never firing back at anyone. You are a true leader and gave us all a great example of how to deal with adversity and extrinsic factors that negatively effect an organization. I still trsty in Dusty!!!

That's my take

Well, I knew this day was coming and I'm relieved. The only bad deal is that we will lose Pierre & Jones, guranteed!! I know alot of fans didn't like Pierre & JJ, but just think how worse this season could of been without them. Now that Baker is gone, lets get rid of Rothchild PLEASE!!!!!!

Its a good day. The Bears kick some major butt last night and Dusty is no longer in blue. In the words of James Brown, "Wooow!, I feel good, na na na na na na na, I knew that I would."